Santa (Son) was very, very good to me.

[SA1911a1]

Regular Santa left my regular coal. But, found, under the tree from my son was a gorgeous, Smith model 1917 revolver. The serial shows 1918 production, but the piece appears to be a commercial model. Checkered Grips, and no US property markings. I have a question though, on the frame at the crane is a marking, a left facing eagle over the number 32. Is that a military acceptance marking? (Serial 107345)

[ffuries]

Read that some of these guns were used for the 1937 Brazilian contract. They had the US Property marks scrubbed, but the Eagle Inspection marks left along. Some were new made some were commercial and military guns refurbished.

Don't know how accurate the information is, buts it an avenue you can look in to.

[SA1911a1]

I suspect that it is a commercial piece; which is fine; it is a great addition to my Smith hoard.

[ffuries]

I suspect that it is a commercial piece; which is fine; it is a great addition to my Smith hoard.

I can steal your photos and your info on it and post it over on the Smith Forums and see what I can find out. With your permission of course, boss man!

[SA1911a1]

Thank you, Mike.

[ffuries]

Thank you, Mike.

Some quick questions before I post it.

Do the serial numbers match and where are they?

Do the assembly numbers match?

There is no US Property stamp under the barrel?

What is on the bottom of the grip frame?

Sorry for being a pain with ny questions Steve, figured I'd give them as much information as possible out the gate.

[Junk Yard Dog]

[SA1911a1]

Thank you, Mike.

Some quick questions before I post it.

Do the serial numbers match and where are they? The serial matches on butt, barrel and cyl. face

Do the assembly numbers match? I see two, one on the crane and one on the frame, and yes, they match. The one on the frame, by the crane is followed by an eagle.

There is no US Property stamp under the barrel? Nope, only the serial, followed by an eagle over S2 on the flat by the frame

What is on the bottom of the grip frame? No. over 104 over 345

Sorry for being a pain with ny questions Steve, figured I'd give them as much information as possible out the gate.

I really appreciate the help with the ID, thank you.

[ffuries]

Thank you, Mike.

Some quick questions before I post it.

Do the serial numbers match and where are they? The serial matches on butt, barrel and cyl. face

Do the assembly numbers match? I see two, one on the crane and one on the frame, and yes, they match. The one on the frame, by the crane is followed by an eagle.

There is no US Property stamp under the barrel? Nope, only the serial, followed by an eagle over S2 on the flat by the frame

What is on the bottom of the grip frame? No. over 104 over 345

Sorry for being a pain with ny questions Steve, figured I'd give them as much information as possible out the gate.

I really appreciate the help with the ID, thank you.

Posted for you boss man, hopefully they can solve the mystery of the Eagle Stamp...

https://www.smithandwessonforums.com/th ... on.234565/

[ffuries]

Couple questions came up, along with a possible explanation.

First response:

"Mike, we are going to need more and better lighted pictures to tell you anything much. The finish appears not to be typical of a military gun. Is there a S&W trademark stamp on the left side of the frame? Is there a "Made in USA" stamp on the lower right side of the frame? The grips are post WWII. Have your friend remove the grips and take a picture of the bottom of the butt frame and the left side of the grip frame. If the serial number on the bottom of the butt frame is parallel with the bottom strap and with no other stamping, it is likely a commercial model. A military model will have US Army Model 1917 No. 107 345 on the butt bottom unless it has been partially or completely removed."

Second response:

"Mike,

Guy touched on a couple of things. What we also need to remember, the Government took control of the S&W factory on 13 September, 1918 and relinquished the factory back to the Wesson family in January of 1919. When they relinquishEd ownership, they required S&W to repurchase the unused parts. Those parts included pieces that had been accepted, and stamped, by the Army. Your friend is probably looking at a Commercial 1917 made with repurchased components.

The number on the butt does not match the number on the barrel. Off by 3000, typo?

More images are required for a good answer. I would need to see the left side of the frame and the butt.

These will help me determine what we are looking at.

Kevin"

[SA1911a1]

Couple questions came up, along with a possible explanation.

First response:

"Mike, we are going to need more and better lighted pictures to tell you anything much. The finish appears not to be typical of a military gun. Is there a S&W trademark stamp on the left side of the frame? Is there a "Made in USA" stamp on the lower right side of the frame? The grips are post WWII. Have your friend remove the grips and take a picture of the bottom of the butt frame and the left side of the grip frame. If the serial number on the bottom of the butt frame is parallel with the bottom strap and with no other stamping, it is likely a commercial model. A military model will have US Army Model 1917 No. 107 345 on the butt bottom unless it has been partially or completely removed."

There is no S&W logo on the frame, there is no Made in USA on the frame The serial is stamped identically to the military revolvers, except that no US Army Model No. is present[/b]

Second response:

"Mike,

Guy touched on a couple of things. What we also need to remember, the Government took control of the S&W factory on 13 September, 1918 and relinquished the factory back to the Wesson family in January of 1919. When they relinquishEd ownership, they required S&W to repurchase the unused parts. Those parts included pieces that had been accepted, and stamped, by the Army. Your friend is probably looking at a Commercial 1917 made with repurchased components.

The number on the butt does not match the number on the barrel. Off by 3000, typo? Yes, it is a typo That is a typo, numbers match on frame, barrel and cyl. 107845 is the correct serial number.

More images are required for a good answer. I would need to see the left side of the frame and the butt.

These will help me determine what we are looking at.

Kevin"

Mike, it would seem from the questions asked and the information given, that this is a post war, but probably early post war, piece. I would have thought that the serial number would have identified the mfg. date, but I am asking because I just don't know. I will be able to post up photos in mid Jan. Until then, the mfg. date may remain a mystery.

[SA1911a1]

Couple questions came up, along with a possible explanation.

First response:

"Mike, we are going to need more and better lighted pictures to tell you anything much. The finish appears not to be typical of a military gun. Is there a S&W trademark stamp on the left side of the frame? Is there a "Made in USA" stamp on the lower right side of the frame? The grips are post WWII. Have your friend remove the grips and take a picture of the bottom of the butt frame and the left side of the grip frame. If the serial number on the bottom of the butt frame is parallel with the bottom strap and with no other stamping, it is likely a commercial model. A military model will have US Army Model 1917 No. 107 345 on the butt bottom unless it has been partially or completely removed."

There is no S&W logo on the frame, there is no Made in USA on the frame The serial is stamped identically to the military revolvers, except that no US Army Model No. is present[/b]

Second response:

"Mike,

Guy touched on a couple of things. What we also need to remember, the Government took control of the S&W factory on 13 September, 1918 and relinquished the factory back to the Wesson family in January of 1919. When they relinquishEd ownership, they required S&W to repurchase the unused parts. Those parts included pieces that had been accepted, and stamped, by the Army. Your friend is probably looking at a Commercial 1917 made with repurchased components.

The number on the butt does not match the number on the barrel. Off by 3000, typo? Yes, it is a typo numbers match on frame, barrel and cyl. 107845 is the correct serial number.

More images are required for a good answer. I would need to see the left side of the frame and the butt.

These will help me determine what we are looking at.

Kevin"

Mike, it would seem from the questions asked and the information given, that this is a post war, but probably early post war, piece made with leftover parts. I would have thought that the serial number would have identified the mfg. date, but I am asking because I just don't know. I will be able to post up photos in mid Jan. Until then, the mfg. date may remain a mystery. I have replied, above, to the questions.

[SA1911a1]

Here are the photos of the piece as we discussed earlier. I am reasonably sure that it is a reblue, but the rest of its history is unknown to me. The military inspection marks lead me to believe that it was made from leftover WWI parts. (That rust was not visible to my naked eye; it has been properly dealt with.)

[ffuries]

Here are the photos of the piece as we discussed earlier. I am reasonably sure that it is a reblue, but the rest of its history is unknown to me. The military inspection marks lead me to believe that it was made from leftover WWI parts. (That rust was not visible to my naked eye; it has been properly dealt with.)

Steve, posted your updated information and additional pictures over on the S&W site.

[ffuries]

Couple questions came up, along with a possible explanation.

First response:

"Mike, we are going to need more and better lighted pictures to tell you anything much. The finish appears not to be typical of a military gun. Is there a S&W trademark stamp on the left side of the frame? Is there a "Made in USA" stamp on the lower right side of the frame? The grips are post WWII. Have your friend remove the grips and take a picture of the bottom of the butt frame and the left side of the grip frame. If the serial number on the bottom of the butt frame is parallel with the bottom strap and with no other stamping, it is likely a commercial model. A military model will have US Army Model 1917 No. 107 345 on the butt bottom unless it has been partially or completely removed."

There is no S&W logo on the frame, there is no Made in USA on the frame The serial is stamped identically to the military revolvers, except that no US Army Model No. is present[/b]

Second response:

"Mike,

Guy touched on a couple of things. What we also need to remember, the Government took control of the S&W factory on 13 September, 1918 and relinquished the factory back to the Wesson family in January of 1919. When they relinquishEd ownership, they required S&W to repurchase the unused parts. Those parts included pieces that had been accepted, and stamped, by the Army. Your friend is probably looking at a Commercial 1917 made with repurchased components.

The number on the butt does not match the number on the barrel. Off by 3000, typo? Yes, it is a typo numbers match on frame, barrel and cyl. 107845 is the correct serial number.

More images are required for a good answer. I would need to see the left side of the frame and the butt.

These will help me determine what we are looking at.

Kevin"

Mike, it would seem from the questions asked and the information given, that this is a post war, but probably early post war, piece made with leftover parts. I would have thought that the serial number would have identified the mfg. date, but I am asking because I just don't know. I will be able to post up photos in mid Jan. Until then, the mfg. date may remain a mystery. I have replied, above, to the questions.

Latest response after posting updated information and the pictures.

According to this website,

https://oldguns.net/sn_php/mildateslook ... 1917sw.dat

that revolver was made in September of 1918.

The stamping are clear enough I am not certain it is a reblue. It might be but I am not sure. The lack of “U S PROPERTY” on the butt is unusual. “UNITED STATES PROPERTY“ should be stamped on the underside of the barrel.

Is it? The lack of the S&W logo indicates to me, it was an Army revolver. The lack of stamps could mean someone removed them so it would not be thought to have been stolen. That last is speculation.

It is a nice revolver. It is set up for hardball ammunition and they are fun to shoot.

Kevin


Screen capture from the site regarding birth date of your Smith, and picture of where the US Property stamp usually is.

[ffuries]

Another reply on/to the post.

It is a military 1917 that has been scrubbed of the US markings and refinished. Plus it is in fair condition. Unless you can get it for $500-600, I'd pass.

Guy

Guess this guy got confused and assumed I was looking to buy it.

[ffuries]

So the concensus right now seems to be, due to the SN falling in the US Government contract range, lack of S&W logo, that this was a M1917 built for the military, that was either later sold to the public or pilfered from the military. Whatever the way it ended in public ownership, an owner removed the US Property stamp from the barrel and the bottom of the back strap.

[SA1911a1]

Thank you for all of your help, Mike.

The depth of the stamping, on the butt, renders it hard to believe that enough material was removed to polish out the piece without leaving any signs.
However, I will defer to the people who know. I do believe that the piece has been reblued, so perhaps that was exactly what happened. The revolver may have made it home from government ownership unlawfully and the refinish was done to hide government owership.

In any case, it is a very nice 100+ year old revolver and I do plan to enjoy shooting the snot out of it.

[ffuries]

Thank you for all of your help, Mike.

The depth of the stamping, on the butt, renders it hard to believe that enough material was removed to polish out the piece without leaving any signs.
However, I will defer to the people who know. I do believe that the piece has been reblued, so perhaps that was exactly what happened. The revolver may have made it home from government ownership unlawfully and the refinish was done to hide government owership.

In any case, it is a very nice 100+ year old revolver and I do plan to enjoy shooting the snot out of it.

It's sparking some conversations.

Here one asks why/about the US Government accepted frame.

Guy,

After the war ended, the Army required S&W to purchase many of the unused revolvers and parts. We have both seen commercial 1917s with various acceptance marks on the parts. What I have not seen is an accepted frame reused for any commercial revolver. Have you? If so, how did they handle the stamping on the butt frame?

Maybe this should be a separate thread?

Kevin

The reply to that question was.

I have seen N frames with the eagles head stamp that had commercial serial numbers. I don't know if they scrubbed the original serial first or the serial was applied to a bare butt.

Guy

[ffuries]

Steve they moved the post to a different section of the forum for additional input.

https://www.smithandwessonforums.com/th ... st-2761294