Ignorance is not bliss...need guidance for shipping antique Tula

[icarus]

After searching topic, I’m still not sure how to sell and ship rifle in the “antique” category.
I’ll be selling 1897 Tula online.
If a 03FFL holder buys it, can I ship it directly to buyer?
Or should I require shipment to a 01FFL LGS, whether buyer is C&R holder or not?

Re shipping, it seems UPS is the way to go w/ this. They require rifle be shipped to licensed collector or 01FFL holder.
So I must declare the contents of the package when shipping or is that just between me and the buyer and/or FFL LGS?
Thanks for any clarification on the subject.

[qz2026]

I never had a problem shipping via UPS. I just packaged the gun up bought a label on the web site and took it to the terminal and dropped it off. No questions were ever asked. According to federal law, an antique is not a rifle. It's an antique. State laws vary though. Depending on the state you sell it to, there could be an FFL requirement. You can send any C&R approved rifle (50 year old or older) to a C&R licensee. If your UPS terminal won't play ball, then you will be forced to require either a C&R license from the buyer or send it to an 01FFL 100% if you take it to the UPS terminal and buy the label there, they will ask. I have found in my town that if I come with it prelabeled, they will just accept it and say thankyou. No questions asked. Some UPS outlets are different I have heard.

[icarus]

Thank you very much. Very helpful.

[racerguy00]

Is the tang dated 1897? I've seen a few antique date barrels on newer receivers lately, those no longer are antique. Never know with a mosin. When shipping antiques it can go to an adult directly if there state laws allow it. I tend to stick to C&,R holders though just to be safe

[icarus]

Tang only has a single canted digit. Does that signify anything definitive?

In case it matters, this rifle was bought from someone who had bought it in 60s-70s era. From what I can find online, the requirement for import marks wasn't instituted until 1968. This has no import marks. My gut tells me it is legit 1897, but I have read about the barrel shank/tang inconsistency creating a question re legitimacy.

With that said, does the lack of a matching tang actually prove the barrel date is illegitimate re the receiver? I would guess no. It just creates speculation. Does it rise to reasonable doubt and what does that mean?
Can it be proven that the rifle is NOT an antique? And if not, does the “unknown” declassify the rifle as an antique w/ regards to BATF standards?
IOW, does the discrepancy equate to reasonable doubt and prevent an absolute determination to be made, and by default, the rifle isn’t classified as an antique?

I understand the safety in shipping to C&R or FFL, but it marginalizes potentially legitimate buyers, if the rifle is truly an antique. Like any seller, I want maximum number of potential buyers.
Your advice is sound though.

[millman]

Pictures of the barrel shank and tang would help.

[icarus]

My thoughts exactly. Pics attached. They are a little large. I'll reduce them if necessary.
I am new at this, but the receiver appears to have a faint Peter the Great marking. It isn't clear, but the shape is similar. I attached a natural shot and a negative to bring out the marking.
I should wait for a more informed opinion, I guess, but I'm seeing a Second Imperial arsenal mark on the barrel shank and a PtG marking on the top flat of the hex receiver, in front of the 0. From what I understand, the PtG markings did not start until 1912, so this rifle probably isn't an antique.
The tang is the canted 8 w/ a faint star to the left of it in the pic, plus maybe another letter or marking.

[millman]

What is stamped under the tang? That will be the receiver date.

[icarus]

These rifles hold so many surprises. Receiver date is 1895.

[millman]

Definitely an antique.

[millman]

The receiver looks to be a Châtellerault.

[icarus]

Thanks for the ID on the receiver. No doubt it is an antique.
I see mismatched or forced matched bolts, mag wells, and butt plates all the time. Is this just as common?
How does this affect value, generally speaking? ...recognizing value is an individual thing.
Sorry for all the questions. I'm not a collector but I can see the attraction to these guns. The history of each is mindboggling to entertain.

[millman]

With Finnish rifles it is common, and with Russian ones it is not rare. The receivers wold have been the hardest/most expensive part to manufacture so they were used more than once if possible.

[icarus]

Makes sense.
One last question, if I may. There are two SA markings. Does that signify it was captured twice? One is a little smaller than the other.

[racerguy00]

The SA isn't a capture mark. It's a Finnish Army property marking that came into use in 1942. Multiple SA stamps are fairly common. The Finns could have acquired that rifle through already having it in inventory when they became an independent nation, bought from a 3rd party country that had captured it from the soviets, or captured from the Soviets themselves. The last is least likely. No way to tell though.

[icarus]

Thanks for the clarification.