M91 Carcano Cavalry Carbine. NY legal?

[matt167]

Classic firearms just put these on sale and I've been holding off for too long. My favorite gun shop hates bayonet's, he will FFL a gun with a removable bayonet, and tell you he never saw it, but a rifle with a folding bayonet, he will treat you like a demonic entity. The other local shop I know as well deals in more.. I know the SKS is legal as long as it has a fixed mag and is not modified, but the Carcano having a clip makes me wonder. I know bolt action should exclude it, but I just want to make sure

[qz2026]

Sounds like you need another FFL or to move out of that state. You may consider getting a C&R License also. I don't understand the Carcano question at all. If you want to know the laws of your state I suggest you look them up. How are we to know? Quite frankly I can't see a Carcano being illegal in any state.

[matt167]

The 2 shops are within 2 miles of each other. The shop I prefer has a nicer owner, but he's afraid of the liability.. The NY SAFE act is kind of confusing to me. I just know there are other NY'ers here.

As far as C&R in NY, I would, but it still has to ship to an FFL in NY, there is just no transfer done. As far as I know

[qz2026]

The 2 shops are within 2 miles of each other. The shop I prefer has a nicer owner, but he's afraid of the liability.. The NY SAFE act is kind of confusing to me. I just know there are other NY'ers here.

As far as C&R in NY, I would, but it still has to ship to an FFL in NY, there is just no transfer done. As far as I know

Learn the laws yourself. If all you say is true and you wish to be a gun owner, I suggest that you flee Babylon.

[matt167]

I did a search on the long island gun board, about Safe act and Carcano and found the answer. They are legal being bolt action without question, but also that an M1 Garand is completely legal being the magazine is fixed, as a clip is not a magazine..

I'm not into pushing the limits or stuff like an AR, just old military rifles. An M44 carbine would probably be a better firearm in my case, being I have enough ammo to go around, a few times over and a spare bolt + Okie headspace gauges. But I wanted something different.. A Garand would be nice, but M2 ball is hard to find and expensive

As far as leaving NY. it would be nice but not in the cards. Girlfriend is a school teacher, and I make good money doing what I'm doing

[SA1911a1]

The FFL should know the laws. If they are legal I don't know why an FFL would have a problem with them. If they are not legal they should be able to tell you that without hemming and hawing. Here in Fl., our statutes are on-line for the world to see, I would suspect that they are there too. If the FFLs are acting wishy-washy, find another FFL who knows the laws and is not opposed to bayonets.

[matt167]

The store that is afraid of bayonets is a good guy. Sells cheap ammo, guns are reasonable and pre SAFE act he stocked Mosin's. My first Mosin came from him. I think he does not want anything even remotely close to being illegal on his log books. There are 2 other shops local. One I've never been foot into but I've heard sells cool stuff, and the other has generally higher prices

[ffuries]

I don't know squat about NY gun laws, I'm not a lawyer and never played one, plus I didn't stay in a Holiday Inn Express last night........But it seems to be two things keep coming up on the various gun forums in regards to NY.

1. NY City gun rules.
2. NY State gun rules.

I could be wrong but it seems that the rules in NYC are more stringent than in State in general and some dealers either through misinformation, fear, ignorance, not caring, trying to stay within the laws, or what not are imposing the NYC rules as if it was the State rules/laws.

Now I could be totally wrong and off base here, but you aren't the first person I've read about having had a rifle neutered by a FFL in New York. We really need Junk Yard Dog to chime in here. He's a hell of lot more educated on NY Laws than most of us will ever be, plus he's a NY resident. Maybe PM him and see if he can chime in here.

Here's his profile.....

https://russian-mosin-nagant-forum.com/ ... file&u=113

[matt167]

I knew that NYC gun laws were different but never gave it a thought that could be why he won't do anything since we get a lot of people who come from NYC to hunt here, and actually most of the " state land " is NYC DEC watershed property despite being 3hrs from there

[matt167]

After some thinking, and searching for ammunition, I think this wouldn't be a good idea. Looks like they are selling on Gun Broker for about $150 with no interest. Considering classic has had their batch for a year and are putting them on sale for $220, it does not look good..

I think if I get another gun, it will be an M44 carbine being I have lots of ammo, or a Mauser or something

[Junk Yard Dog]

NYC has it's own set of rules for pistols and long guns, never setting foot there I haven't bothered to learn their crap. The state, and I mean upstate , has no law making any bolt action rifle with or without a bayonet illegal. Liability for selling a rifle with a bayonet? He's selling a firearm that is capable of firing live rounds, the bayonet is of no consequence. This states gun laws are many, and complex, but these are more applicable to modern black rifles, not ancient bolt actions, just don't bring it into NYC, who knows what they would do to you about it there. I have multiple SKS rifles, and one Japanese Arisaka carbine with folding bayonets, none of them were a problem to acquire both with my own FFL, or from gun shops. I have run into more than one FFL holder who was ignorant of the rules, or chose to make up their own rules for whatever reason. Don't get me started about hunters coming out of NYC to hunt upstate. One of them shot to death a friend of mine back in the 90's after mistaking him for a deer. These guys have limited, to no woodscraft skills, manage to get a hunting license so they can hunt on land they have no familiarity with. The locals know to stay out of the woods when that group is around, or they go deeper into the bush were the city boys don't go.

[Junk Yard Dog]

I forgot, I have something between 15-20 M44's and type 53's, maybe more than 20, I forget as I was heavily buying these back before 2010, all have attached folding bayonets, none were a problem to acquire.

[matt167]

Thanks, I got ahold of another FFL gun shop that said yup, no problem. I could get one of the Caracano's right to them as they are on file at Classic Firearms. I just don't know if I want one or not, as it would be strictly a wall hanger..

And where I live, I'm surrounded by DEC state land. A round winged a neighbors house a few years ago.

[Junk Yard Dog]

Thanks, I got ahold of another FFL gun shop that said yup, no problem. I could get one of the Caracano's right to them as they are on file at Classic Firearms. I just don't know if I want one or not, as it would be strictly a wall hanger..

And where I live, I'm surrounded by DEC state land. A round winged a neighbors house a few years ago.

There is no rule that you must shoot every rifle you own. I don't shoot most of mine, and that's a considerable number, I collected them for the history, not how well they drill a piece of paper, or if they do at all. I have commercial sporters I can use for that .

[matt167]

Thanks, I got ahold of another FFL gun shop that said yup, no problem. I could get one of the Caracano's right to them as they are on file at Classic Firearms. I just don't know if I want one or not, as it would be strictly a wall hanger..

And where I live, I'm surrounded by DEC state land. A round winged a neighbors house a few years ago.

There is no rule that you must shoot every rifle you own. I don't shoot most of mine, and that's a considerable number, I collected them for the history, not how well they drill a piece of paper, or if they do at all. I have commercial sporters I can use for that .

I'm just trying to decide between an M44 or the Caracano. I only really collect for the history as well, but I do have ammunition for what I have though. The Caracano, through a quick search, I could not obtain ammunition for it, for a reasonable price.

[matt167]

Well, I ordered one, and paid the $30 for best of 10. I will probably figure out how to get some ammo for it. But likely only to have.

[matt167]

Not really happy with Classic Firearms.. IF they did a hand select ( which I paid for ), the rifle that was sent was in rough condition, not good condition. They are probably dealing with a crate of garbage.. I wasn't able to check condition of the bore or function, as the FFL I dealt with. since they forgot to ship a copy of their FFL in the box. Now I have to get them to give me a copy so I can forward it to the store... ontop of that, the LGS that I went through is really nice and actually has a vast selection of milsurps including 2 M91 Carcano's for about the same price but include a box of ammo and a clip.. I pretty much know that I am bringing 'something' home from his inventory when I finally get this cleared up, but I don't know if it will be a Carcano or a Mauser, or a Mosin. He also has a Type 99 Arisaka.. His Mosins are high, at $600 for a round receiver run of the mill 91/30, he can keep them for that price.. But he has an M44 that I might think about, and the Mausers are more fairly priced and the type 99 is right with what I think it should be priced at

[ffuries]

A lot of complaints now on the Carcanos. I think they've gone through the good ones and are down to garbage ones.

I've read about frozen bolts, broken bolts, one where the bolt was stuck in the chamber, cracked stocks, chunks missing from stocks, sewer pipe barrels. It's at the point that unless it's a brand new weapon, or a milsurp where there's a tons of pictures of showing condition, you'd be better off buying something in person so you can handle it before you make the decision.

Sorry for your bad luck on this......

[matt167]

A lot of complaints now on the Carcanos. I think they've gone through the good ones and are down to garbage ones.

I've read about frozen bolts, broken bolts, one where the bolt was stuck in the chamber, cracked stocks, chunks missing from stocks, sewer pipe barrels. It's at the point that unless it's a brand new weapon, or a milsurp where there a tons of pictures of showing condition, you'd be better off buying something in person so you can handle it before you make the decision.

Sorry for your bad luck on this......

That's what I found after I ordered it and it shipped.

The one I got I know has a decent stock, and it looks like it isn't frozen so it may end up a shooter.. I didn't check what year it was but we know they are all within the range of 100 years old, so I guess for something 100 years old, it might be rusty. But the gun shop has a 1917 Carcano M91 TS and a 1916 TS, both with good bores and they are pretty clean. Not refurb Mosin clean but presentable , both with 1947 refurbish stamped stocks and double stamped serials on the butt of the stock. He adds a a box of ammo with each gun he sells, but the Carcano ammo is otherwise off limits as he only has enough for the rifles he has in the rack. I don't know if I want 2 near identical Carcano's with a very limited ammunition supply, or a Mauser

[millman]

A lot of complaints now on the Carcanos. I think they've gone through the good ones and are down to garbage ones.

I've read about frozen bolts, broken bolts, one where the bolt was stuck in the chamber, cracked stocks, chunks missing from stocks, sewer pipe barrels. It's at the point that unless it's a brand new weapon, or a milsurp where there a tons of pictures of showing condition, you'd be better off buying something in person so you can handle it before you make the decision.

Sorry for your bad luck on this......

That's what I found after I ordered it and it shipped.

The one I got I know has a decent stock, and it looks like it isn't frozen so it may end up a shooter.. I didn't check what year it was but we know they are all within the range of 100 years old, so I guess for something 100 years old, it might be rusty. But the gun shop has a 1917 Carcano M91 TS and a 1916 TS, both with good bores and they are pretty clean. Not refurb Mosin clean but presentable , both with 1947 refurbish stamped stocks and double stamped serials on the butt of the stock. He adds a a box of ammo with each gun he sells, but the Carcano ammo is otherwise off limits as he only has enough for the rifles he has in the rack. I don't know if I want 2 near identical Carcano's with a very limited ammunition supply, or a Mauser

I'd go for a Mauser next. Swedish ones are nice.