Cleaning your rifle initially and after shooting!

[millman]

I guess I didn't make myself clear. There is no good alternative to water or a water based cleaner. It takes water to dissolve salt. Why the aversion to water? Water is cheap and works.

[Junk Yard Dog]

Use the WW2 GI cleaner, it's formulated for corrosive primers, no modern bore cleaner is. I thought you weren't shooting surplus ammo?

[Deputy]

Use the WW2 GI cleaner, it's formulated for corrosive primers, no modern bore cleaner is. I thought you weren't shooting surplus ammo?

I wasn't, but the ammo shortage has now hit non-corro 7.62X54R Yeah, I'll use the GI cleaner if worse comes to worse.

[Junk Yard Dog]

The lights are running low, the supplies running out and the Zombies are at the gate, you use whatever ammo comes to hand. Of course in that situation you will be doing your own personal reenactment of the Alamo and cleaning later might not matter .

[Darryl]

There is no such thing as "corrosive fouling". That is a made up term.

The only thing different with a modern round and a corrosive round (surplus) is the primer.


The powder is of no consequence. The powder is what causes "fouling". It is easily cleaned with any gun cleaner. Your choice.

Back to the primer. It contains chemicals that release the "salts" in to the rifle when discharged. Those salts is what make the entire round "corrosive". Any water based cleaner will dissolve those salts. So can you remove the salts without any water at all????...well, like anything in this world, if you use enough of it, it will "wash" off the salts enough for the oil to protect it.

Anyway, what is so scary about using a water based cleaner? Nothing. Why would you give up using surplus ammo because you are afraid to use a water based cleaner? That's crazy. Just flush with a water based cleaner and finish with any gun cleaner you like.

The water will flush the salts (the corrosive part) and the gun cleaner will remove the water and the powder fouling. finish up with a oil. Simple. Don't try to make it something it is not. Corrosive ammo is what they used during WWII. Your rifle has fired more corrosive ammo that it will ever fire in modern ammo. And if you think they stopped a battle to clean their rifles right now, you're crazy. They did it when they had the time and weren't being shot at.

The Russian bottle that came with most Mosin were a two sided bottle. On one side was oil. On the other side was a alkaline solution...... probably ammonia and water (ammonia being a alkali). The alkali (or ammonia) was to help remove some of the Jacket fouling and not to alter the salts. The water dissolved the salts. A perfect combination. And they didn't even do the last step of using any gun cleaner.

You also hear of men "peeing" down the barrel of their rifles if they were short on cleaners or time.

Dolk

[Junk Yard Dog]

Yea, I have the strong suspicion the smell of piss on some of my rifles on a hot day isn't entirely my imagination.

[Darryl]

Yea, I have the strong suspicion the smell of piss on some of my rifles on a hot day isn't entirely my imagination.

That's a different thing .....I told you inviting Chuck over to shoot wasn't a great idea!

You know, that is how dogs mark their territory!


Just kidding....maybe...

[Junk Yard Dog]

[Longcolt44]

Yea, I have the strong suspicion the smell of piss on some of my rifles on a hot day isn't entirely my imagination.

That's a different thing .....I told you inviting Chuck over to shoot wasn't a great idea!

You know, that is how dogs mark their territory!


Just kidding....maybe...

Yes, I did it. He invited me and all his buddies to shoot and left me to clean up after while they went to eat steaks and chili I did use water, just not how you would normally do it.

[Deputy]

I HAVE heard of men peeing on the bolts of their rifles to unfreeze them in extremely cold climates. Never heard of them peeing down the barrels. Have to be a pretty accurate stream to do that!!!
Why do I not want to use water? Because water is a component of rust. Rust doesn't form from anything else but water and something else. Usually salt. I used to live in Illinois. They salt the streets whenever it snows or ice is present. Guess how long a car lasts in Illinois before rust happens? I had a brand new car that started rusting on the hood after one year and I took meticulous care of it. I now live in New Mexico where they sand the streets if it ever snows. I have a 2004 Chevy truck that doesn't have one spot of rust on either the body or frame. Now, you want me to ADD water TO salt to help prevent rust and corrosion. No thanks.

I found a couple of gun cleaners that are water-based. One of them is SLIP 2000 725 gun cleaner. And even better, my main choice in gun cleaners, Hoppes Elite, is water based.
So wouldn't I be able to use JUST Hoppe's Elite and NO water to clean the bore and not have to worry about leftover water that I might not see causing rust?

Dep

[Darryl]

I HAVE heard of men peeing on the bolts of their rifles to unfreeze them in extremely cold climates. Never heard of them peeing down the barrels. Have to be a pretty accurate stream to do that!!!
Why do I not want to use water? Because water is a component of rust. Rust doesn't form from anything else but water and something else. Usually salt. I used to live in Illinois. They salt the streets whenever it snows or ice is present. Guess how long a car lasts in Illinois before rust happens? I had a brand new car that started rusting on the hood after one year and I took meticulous care of it. I now live in New Mexico where they sand the streets if it ever snows. I have a 2004 Chevy truck that doesn't have one spot of rust on either the body or frame. Now, you want me to ADD water TO salt to help prevent rust and corrosion. No thanks.

I found a couple of gun cleaners that are water-based. One of them is SLIP 2000 725 gun cleaner. And even better, my main choice in gun cleaners, Hoppes Elite, is water based.
So wouldn't I be able to use JUST Hoppe's Elite and NO water to clean the bore and not have to worry about leftover water that I might not see causing rust?

Dep

You are too paranoid about water. Like you said, I'll just use "WATER BASED HOPPIES". Guess what....water! Same thing!

With anything you use, you have to finish with oil! I don't care what it is. Oil is what protects it from rust. Without oil, you are not done yet and it will rust.

What is used to "clean" off the powder fouling, copper build up, salts from the primers and anything else is fine but,....without the oil and it will rust. Now I'm sure there is something out there that claims to "do it all in one item", but I'll bet most of the guys here will tell you "don't trust it, oil it!". So use what you want to clean it as long as it does clean it.

Bottom line.......There is no reason to be afraid of using corrosive ammo....It's cheap so you can afford to have more fun!

1) Just clean off the salts (any water based cleaner.....cheaper is smarter, but it is your money)

2) Clean the fouling (Your choice of bore cleaner) (if you have a boat load of money, then you can buy a "water based" bore cleaner that says "Good for Corrosive ammo" and skip step one i guess)

3) Then oil it (any good oil, but I only use a "gun" oil. I don't put motor oil on my guns, and I don't put rem oil in my cars,....although it probably would work. )

And do it ASAP (not an emergency, you have time. Just not over night ,......unless you are in a gun battle, then overnight is OK)

Clean them like above and you will never know you ever fired corrosive ammo. It's just not that hard, and if it is, then maybe you shouldn't be firing them in the first place.
Cleaning is part of the fun of firing them for me.



.

[Deputy]

Dolk: Sounds good to me.
I also don't believe in the "CLP" thing. I've tested just abouty every CLP product available and most of them only do 1 or maybe 2 out of the three. The military version of CLP BreakFree might be okay, but that's not the version that is available over the counter. The stuff you can buy has the "cleaner" part of it reduced in strength. ROYCO (the military stuff) uses a 40% solution of solvent in their mixture for CLP, Break-Free CLP uses a 20% mixture.
The rest of the "do all" products are all advertising hype. One item I found interesting, although I have heard mixed reports about it, is Frog Lube.

[Darryl]

One item I found interesting, although I have heard mixed reports about it, is Frog Lube.

I don't ever lube my frog!....never! Tried it once when I was young and he lay-ed over and died......Go figure!

D

[bunkysdad]

Frogs are already slippery enough. I would stick to the simple stuff

[Darryl]

Frogs are already slippery enough. I would stick to the simple stuff

That, and I have never....ever seen one "rust" before!

[WeldonHunter]

The other substance that works in conjuction with the moisture to cause rust is oxygen. Salt attracts moisture and oxygen is the catalyst that with it that causes rust. The reason we've suggested hot, even boiling water is the heat transfers to the metal that's being cleaned. Most of the water used in disolving the salts runs off and the heat left behind evaporates most of the remaining moisture if not all of it. The cleaning done after that usually removes anything else. The oil you apply crates a barrier to moisture and oxygen in the air and any moisture left behind if there even is any. CLP is not a good cleaner but is an excellant lube/preservative. That's it's main purpose and they only cleaning action it perfoms is basiclly by loosening and floating residue away with scrubbing action. It's not a solvent. They will tell you this if you call Safariland, the maker of it. I live in Louisiana where it's 80 to 100% humidity a lot and my rifles are hanging on the wall with a coating of CLP on them with no rust in over 5 years. I have 35 rifles on racks around here hanging on the walls.

No matter what product you use, whether it's CLP, Remoil or motor oil you'll have to check them from time to time and reapply the oil. Oil works. Here's an example. My mom's boyfriend is from Tonga. It's an Island the middle of South Pacific. Very salty air and very humid. Most people that own vehicles there cherrish them because it's a remote island where vehicles are at a premium. They rust way faster than most places like Maryland where I grew up and they constantly salt the roads. When they change the oil on any vehicle there the use the old oil to as rust prevention by painting the underside and any place metal that's not painted. Seems to work and they've been doing it since at least WW2 when our troups were stationed there and showed them how to do it.

[TopperT]

I'm a simple shit.......

In my range bag, I keep a 8 oz. bottle filled with Windex / amonia. After each session with each rifle I swab out the bbl with a couple of patches soaked with the Windex. I spray the bolt too, pack up and go home. At night I swab out the bbl and action with Hoppes #9. A few (ok more than a few) clean patches and finally a couple of patches with Balistol. NEVER see any rust, rot or Liberals ..................

[Deputy]

I'm a simple shit.......

In my range bag, I keep a 8 oz. bottle filled with Windex / amonia. After each session with each rifle I swab out the bbl with a couple of patches soaked with the Windex. I spray the bolt too, pack up and go home. At night I swab out the bbl and action with Hoppes #9. A few (ok more than a few) clean patches and finally a couple of patches with Balistol. NEVER see any rust, rot or Liberals ..................

And you are always on call to clean windows if they are dirty!

[Darryl]

I'm a simple shit.......

In my range bag, I keep a 8 oz. bottle filled with Windex / amonia. After each session with each rifle I swab out the bbl with a couple of patches soaked with the Windex. I spray the bolt too, pack up and go home. At night I swab out the bbl and action with Hoppes #9. A few (ok more than a few) clean patches and finally a couple of patches with Balistol. NEVER see any rust, rot or Liberals ..................

Perfect! That is how it is done......

[Jolly Green Chopper]

Hot Water followed by more hot water through the barrel seems to be the single cheapest and most effective ingredient for cleaning corrosive agents out of any Mosin-Nagant.Many forum members have used it .It may be a bit messy but it works. Read about it here on the forum first.