New user, New Mosin, unsure of date or manufacturer AZF + [SA] Hex M91.

[KoboldBlackpaw]

EDIT: Pics here!

Howdy y'all! New to the forums but been collecting Mosins for a little while (still looking for a '53 Romanian M44!) I've recently grabbed up a very cheap but beat Hex Receiver M91. I was told at the auction that it's a Remington, however the barrel was replaced when the Finns bought it (SA stamp on what seems to be a B barrel, B is stamped on the underside of the barrel, no other major markings on the top except a re-struck serial) and am currently assuming it's a Tula receiver.

The bolt serial matches the barrel serial. The arshins on the left of the sight have been struck out and remarked with metres on the right, and flips up to become a 13 through 32 marked sight. Front sight is a stepped Barleycorn. A "D" marks the right side of the rear sight, which I read means the Finns changed the innards for a specific round they used, also on the base of the rear sight at the very end of it is a B. There is a B on the bottom of the barrel just forward of the chamber, further down the bottom of the barrel is a upsidedown R, then some sort of +. On top of the barrel, just behind the rear sight base, is a 4, and then where the chamber ends, another 4. On the right side of the receiver is a large S, some sort of crest, and then a 4. Top of the receiver, before the barrel, is a Russian Eagle with what looks like "ПK" under it, and then an AZF marking., There is no R on the tang, and what makes me assume it's a Tula is what looks to be a Tula hammer followed by "904Г" on said tang.

The bolt has a struck through 1 on it under the bolt handle, and what looks like a Tula hammer on the bolt head. The buttplate is unmarked and not blued. The mag plate has a different serial which is struck out. It is missing the forend of the stock, but the butt end has a pre-war/wartime "Bunny Ears" looking repair splice at the end under the rear sight. It has some form of crest, what I read to be a stock maker's mark for Finnish rifles, on the right side, and Finnish "stepped" swing swivel in the buttstock.

Photos coming soon! I think that's all the info I can really give.

[ffuries]

Howdy y'all! New to the forums but been collecting Mosins for a little while (still looking for a '53 Romanian M44!) I've recently grabbed up a very cheap but beat Hex Receiver M91. I was told at the auction that it's a Remington, however the barrel was replaced when the Finns bought it (SA stamp on what seems to be a B barrel, B is stamped on the underside of the barrel, no other major markings on the top except a re-struck serial) and am currently assuming it's a Tula receiver.

The bolt serial matches the barrel serial. The arshins on the left of the sight have been struck out and remarked with metres on the right, and flips up to become a 13 through 32 marked sight. Front sight is a stepped Barleycorn. A "D" marks the right side of the rear sight, which I read means the Finns changed the innards for a specific round they used, also on the base of the rear sight at the very end of it is a B. There is a B on the bottom of the barrel just forward of the chamber, further down the bottom of the barrel is a upsidedown R, then some sort of +. On top of the barrel, just behind the rear sight base, is a 4, and then where the chamber ends, another 4. On the right side of the receiver is a large S, some sort of crest, and then a 4. Top of the receiver, before the barrel, is a Russian Eagle with what looks like "ПK" under it, and then an AZF marking., There is no R on the tang, and what makes me assume it's a Tula is what looks to be a Tula hammer followed by "904Г" on said tang.

The bolt has a struck through 1 on it under the bolt handle, and what looks like a Tula hammer on the bolt head. The buttplate is unmarked and not blued. The mag plate has a different serial which is struck out. It is missing the forend of the stock, but the butt end has a pre-war/wartime "Bunny Ears" looking repair splice at the end under the rear sight. It has some form of crest, what I read to be a stock maker's mark for Finnish rifles, on the right side, and Finnish "stepped" swing swivel in the buttstock.

Photos coming soon! I think that's all the info I can really give.

Welcome to the forums, the madness, the sickness or whatever else you can come up with to call our addiction to greasy, dirty milsurps.

While we are waiting for pictures you can peruse through this portion of the forum if you haven't already, see link below. A lot of your questions can be answered in the Information Pages. I, well actually WE, look forward to seeing the pictures of your rifle.

Again welcome to the forums, you'll enjoy it around here, and we have a lot of knowledgable people on here. Of which I'm not one of them, I know enough, to know that I don't know enough



http://www.russian-mosin-nagant.com

[KoboldBlackpaw]

Howdy y'all! New to the forums but been collecting Mosins for a little while (still looking for a '53 Romanian M44!) I've recently grabbed up a very cheap but beat Hex Receiver M91. I was told at the auction that it's a Remington, however the barrel was replaced when the Finns bought it (SA stamp on what seems to be a B barrel, B is stamped on the underside of the barrel, no other major markings on the top except a re-struck serial) and am currently assuming it's a Tula receiver.

The bolt serial matches the barrel serial. The arshins on the left of the sight have been struck out and remarked with metres on the right, and flips up to become a 13 through 32 marked sight. Front sight is a stepped Barleycorn. A "D" marks the right side of the rear sight, which I read means the Finns changed the innards for a specific round they used, also on the base of the rear sight at the very end of it is a B. There is a B on the bottom of the barrel just forward of the chamber, further down the bottom of the barrel is a upsidedown R, then some sort of +. On top of the barrel, just behind the rear sight base, is a 4, and then where the chamber ends, another 4. On the right side of the receiver is a large S, some sort of crest, and then a 4. Top of the receiver, before the barrel, is a Russian Eagle with what looks like "ПK" under it, and then an AZF marking., There is no R on the tang, and what makes me assume it's a Tula is what looks to be a Tula hammer followed by "904Г" on said tang.

The bolt has a struck through 1 on it under the bolt handle, and what looks like a Tula hammer on the bolt head. The buttplate is unmarked and not blued. The mag plate has a different serial which is struck out. It is missing the forend of the stock, but the butt end has a pre-war/wartime "Bunny Ears" looking repair splice at the end under the rear sight. It has some form of crest, what I read to be a stock maker's mark for Finnish rifles, on the right side, and Finnish "stepped" swing swivel in the buttstock.

Photos coming soon! I think that's all the info I can really give.

Welcome to the forums, the madness, the sickness or whatever else you can come up with to call our addiction to greasy, dirty milsurps.

While we are waiting for pictures you can peruse through this portion of the forum if you haven't already, see link below. A lot of your questions can be answered in the Information Pages. I, well actually WE, look forward to seeing the pictures of your rifle.

Again welcome to the forums, you'll enjoy it around here, and we have a lot of knowledgable people on here. Of which I'm not one of them, I know enough, to know that I don't know enough



http://www.russian-mosin-nagant.com

Thank you! I had accidentally double posted this post, but here are the photos. Hopefully the other one gets deleted as I can't seem to figure out how to.

[ffuries]

The Rampant Lion S marking I believe is a Czech marking.
The AZF marking is Artillerie Zeugs Fabrik a Austrian marking.
The SA marking is Suomen Armeija a Finnish marking.

You are correct the receiver is 1904 Tula receiver. The stock has a typical Finnish splice/repair. Very interesting path this rifle has taken that is for sure. I'll look at the other pictures and see what I can come up with.

[racerguy00]

It looks a lot like this one, not many markings on the barrel.

https://www.russian-mosin-nagant-forum. ... =48&t=7030

Not Remington that's for sure.

[KoboldBlackpaw]

It looks a lot like this one, not many markings on the barrel.

https://www.russian-mosin-nagant-forum. ... =48&t=7030

Not Remington that's for sure.

That does look similar! I also have a D located on my sight base, this would make sense, and the end of the barrel doesn't seem to have any rifling for 1-3 inches (can't fully tell, the barrel is very nasty and a bit corroded.) Checking with 7.62 net here does show an "uncommon" scrubbed barrel, with no P series markings. Could this be so? This is one heck of a weird rifle! And to think I was thinking about selling it because I'm too lazy to find matching furniture.

[racerguy00]

Finns are mix masters of parts. That's the way they were issued. Only the bolts were usually matched. As long as its al there non-matching furniture is really common on Finns.

[KoboldBlackpaw]

Finns are mix masters of parts. That's the way they were issued. Only the bolts were usually matched. As long as its al there non-matching furniture is really common on Finns.

Ah I just more meant matching style - IE the correct Finnish swing swivel stock.

[ffuries]

It looks a lot like this one, not many markings on the barrel.

https://www.russian-mosin-nagant-forum. ... =48&t=7030

Not Remington that's for sure.

That does look similar! I also have a D located on my sight base, this would make sense, and the end of the barrel doesn't seem to have any rifling for 1-3 inches (can't fully tell, the barrel is very nasty and a bit corroded.) Checking with 7.62 net here does show an "uncommon" scrubbed barrel, with no P series markings. Could this be so? This is one heck of a weird rifle! And to think I was thinking about selling it because I'm too lazy to find matching furniture.

Leave her as it is, she's well travelled and has a lot of history. The stories it could tell if it could talk.

[KoboldBlackpaw]

It looks a lot like this one, not many markings on the barrel.

https://www.russian-mosin-nagant-forum. ... =48&t=7030

Not Remington that's for sure.

That does look similar! I also have a D located on my sight base, this would make sense, and the end of the barrel doesn't seem to have any rifling for 1-3 inches (can't fully tell, the barrel is very nasty and a bit corroded.) Checking with 7.62 net here does show an "uncommon" scrubbed barrel, with no P series markings. Could this be so? This is one heck of a weird rifle! And to think I was thinking about selling it because I'm too lazy to find matching furniture.

Leave her as it is, she's well travelled and has a lot of history. The stories it could tell if it could talk.

Very true! Hopefully shooting her turns out well. Only issue is I've only got corrosive original LPS ammo, and the barrel needs a real cleaning. As much as I'd like to leave it as is, at minimum the barrel must be returned to working order so she can continue to accrue history.

[ffuries]

It looks a lot like this one, not many markings on the barrel.

https://www.russian-mosin-nagant-forum. ... =48&t=7030

Not Remington that's for sure.

That does look similar! I also have a D located on my sight base, this would make sense, and the end of the barrel doesn't seem to have any rifling for 1-3 inches (can't fully tell, the barrel is very nasty and a bit corroded.) Checking with 7.62 net here does show an "uncommon" scrubbed barrel, with no P series markings. Could this be so? This is one heck of a weird rifle! And to think I was thinking about selling it because I'm too lazy to find matching furniture.

Leave her as it is, she's well travelled and has a lot of history. The stories it could tell if it could talk.

Very true! Hopefully shooting her turns out well. Only issue is I've only got corrosive original LPS ammo, and the barrel needs a real cleaning. As much as I'd like to leave it as is, at minimum the barrel must be returned to working order so she can continue to accrue history.

By all means clean her up and shoot her. You'll get tons of information from people on how to clean a "Sewer pipe" barrel. The vast majority of them are pretty much the same.

Pick your bore cleaner, plug the barrel, fill her up and let it sit a bit, pour out scrub like hell, pour boiling water down the barrel inspect. Repeat as needed. Take her out and shot it, while the barrel is hot, clean her again.

After it's as clean as you can get it, keep it cleaned and oil.

There are stickies on here, about cleaning after shooting corrosive ammo, I only shoot commercial, although I have a bunch of milsurp ammo. Someone will be along and give a run down on the proper procedures for post corrosive ammo cleaning.

BTW my leave it as if is remark was geared towards the stock swap, as we are a preservation forum, you'll get a lot of flak talking about things like that.

Hope you get her out to the range soon so yall can sling some lead downrange.

[KoboldBlackpaw]

By all means clean her up and shoot her. You'll get tons of information from people on how to clean a "Sewer pipe" barrel. The vast majority of them are pretty much the same.

Pick your bore cleaner, plug the barrel, fill her up and let it sit a bit, pour out scrub like hell, pour boiling water down the barrel inspect. Repeat as needed. Take her out and shot it, while the barrel is hot, clean her again.

After it's as clean as you can get it, keep it cleaned and oil.

There are stickies on here, about cleaning after shooting corrosive ammo, I only shoot commercial, although I have a bunch of milsurp ammo. Someone will be along and give a run down on the proper procedures for post corrosive ammo cleaning.

BTW my leave it as if is remark was geared towards the stock swap, as we are a preservation forum, you'll get a lot of flak talking about things like that.

Hope you get her out to the range soon so yall can sling some lead downrange.

I am 100% for preservation - I work on classic VWs and I get so tired of people saying "when are you gonna paint it?" NEVER!!

[ffuries]

By all means clean her up and shoot her. You'll get tons of information from people on how to clean a "Sewer pipe" barrel. The vast majority of them are pretty much the same.

Pick your bore cleaner, plug the barrel, fill her up and let it sit a bit, pour out scrub like hell, pour boiling water down the barrel inspect. Repeat as needed. Take her out and shot it, while the barrel is hot, clean her again.

After it's as clean as you can get it, keep it cleaned and oil.

There are stickies on here, about cleaning after shooting corrosive ammo, I only shoot commercial, although I have a bunch of milsurp ammo. Someone will be along and give a run down on the proper procedures for post corrosive ammo cleaning.

BTW my leave it as if is remark was geared towards the stock swap, as we are a preservation forum, you'll get a lot of flak talking about things like that.

Hope you get her out to the range soon so yall can sling some lead downrange.

I am 100% for preservation - I work on classic VWs and I get so tired of people saying "when are you gonna paint it?" NEVER!!

You'll fit in fine around here then........

[KoboldBlackpaw]

Forgot to mention - there's a brass? tab under the receiver tang, is this a normal feature, or an "accurizing" feature added by the Finns? It's covered in cosmoline. And did they have two-piece stocks or did someone take a hacksaw to this poor baby of mine? It looks more like a piece slides over it but I could be wrong.

[ffuries]

Forgot to mention - there's a brass? tab under the receiver tang, is this a normal feature, or an "accurizing" feature added by the Finns? It's covered in cosmoline. And did they have two-piece stocks or did someone take a hacksaw to this poor baby of mine? It looks more like a piece slides over it but I could be wrong.

The brass piece is a shim and it was often done by the Fins and other nations, and yes it was done for accurizing. The stock is correct for the rifle, a lot of stuff was reused and a stock could be repaired, hence the splice.

Here's my Finnish M24, with a Finnish made stock you can make out the splice on it.

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=28434&p=392603&hilit=Lotta#p392603

Here's my Finnish 1927 Tikkakoski stepped barrel M91, you can just make out the stock splice on it.

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=6555&p=96335&hilit= ... rel#p96335

If you do a search on the forum for "Spliced Stocks" you get a lot of posts with a ton of information and pictures of the different style splices.

search.php

[SA1911a1]

That is a very interesting rifle. You did well.

[TnBuckeye]

Welcome aboard and enjoy that rifle! Report back on how it performs at the range.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[KoboldBlackpaw]

Thank you all for the comments! As far as the stock goes I more mean where it abruptly ends after the splice, I assume it's been cut off because someone was about to chop this poor baby into a sporter, and that it would just be one long stock like a normal mosin after the splice? There's not a "handguard piece" of wood that somehow fits here? I'm not too bothered by it, but I'm certainly glad I saved her. I also have a '27 Hex Izhevsk I should put up here some time, all matching and absolutely beautiful. She was a bit pricy but I knew I had to have her.

[qz2026]

I didn't see a picture of the entire rifle so I cannot comment on if the forestock has been cut off. From the pictures it's possible though. Why someone would do that is beyond me. It is not uncommon to see M-91's without a hand guard. Don't think you can get them anymore for under $150 and it likely wouldn't match anyway.

Remington

Nice gun BTW. I'm sure if she could talk, she'd have some good stories to tell.

[KoboldBlackpaw]

I didn't see a picture of the entire rifle so I cannot comment on if the forestock has been cut off. From the pictures it's possible though. Why someone would do that is beyond me. It is not uncommon to see M-91's without a hand guard. Don't think you can get them anymore for under $150 and it likely wouldn't match anyway.

Remington

Nice gun BTW. I'm sure if she could talk, she'd have some good stories to tell.

That last photo I posted (the splice and some of the barrel) should show what I'm talking about. I'm assuming someone took a hacksaw to it, though no I don't have a top handguard piece either. Or barrel bands. Or anything really