Gun Control Push

[ksbanker]

Gentlemen,

What are you thoughts concerning the concerted effort the left and media are putting forth for new gun control? Trump has mentioned raising the age to buy semi-automatic firearms to 21. Would this actually be effective at stopping school shootings? (I think not) I also find it interesting (and irritating) that suddenly a select few students from the school involved are now experts on solving school shootings.

If the age to buy semi-automatic rifles (and shotguns?) is raised to 21 the voting age should also be raised to 21.

I think having TSA style security at large schools and armed staff members at small schools would be a much more effective solution than any kind of gun control.

[Darryl]

There are so many problems with ANY solution you come up with. Those problems need to be worked out first. And that is the hard part.

My biggest problem with raising the age of gun ownership has always been the same as voting. You take a kid out of high school and send him over to a another country to fight for your rights or the country and when he comes home you tell him he is not trustworthy or capable of owning a firearm or to vote? I remember being in this position when I came out of high school and they had the draft for Vietnam. That was the year they gave us the right to vote at 18. Before that it was clear to me that it was OK to die for the country, but not vote for those sending us over there. Very frustrating. Now we want to take that away from them and firearms? That is a hard sell to make for me. I would have to be positive it was the right thing to do and it would solve the problem, and how do you get there?

Making Bump stocks illegal is less of a problem for me. We are not allowed to have them here in California now. But will it change anything on a Federal level. Many States are allowed full auto weapons now (with a federal permit or what ever) like Nevada. So they will not be able to own a bump stock, but they can buy a full auto?? How does that really help or change anything? I am NOT advocating removing the right to own a full auto with licensing.

Most of us know the real problem. That is mental illness and lack of families in these people doing this. How do you solve that problem when there are people out there (lawyers) fighting for these peoples rights as they do. That is why they are all over the streets in SF now. Homeless and either mentally ill or drugs. But , you can't infringe on their rights. These lawyers won't let you. They have a right to be there and be free. How do you solve that? I don't have a solution either.

But everyone has rights. Not all of those rights are in the "Bill of Rights", but some are.

This won't be an easy process.


PS: please try to keep this to "gun rights" and not political. If anything goes "political", it will be remove. (party politics)

If you find a need to be political, you can send me a PM. I'll listen but, I'm not a licensed shrink.



.

[awalker1829]

I do agree that there isn’t an easy answer. While I do not like making the law any more complicated or burdensome than necessary, I do think that some change is necessary.

While bump stocks and binary triggers are neat toys, neither of them were original features of the AR-15. In the interest of public safety, I would be willing to have those regulated in exchange for national concealed carry reciprocity. I would not support making those features illegal by any means, but I think that compromise could work to improve safety and suck the wind out of the sails of the anti-gun crowd.

Coupled with compromise, we need money to fix the known NICS issues and provide social services. We also need to study the known mass shooting cases to determine what common factors are and use our resources most effectively.

Can we move this to the Generator Discussion page?

[ffuries]

I've been mulling over this issue for the last week or so. Problem is, there isn't a quick easy fix for this. How do we identify/diagnose undesirables and keep guns out of their hands? I honestly don't have an answer for that. What I do know is we, as gun owners, need to come together as a collective community and help devise some practical/viable/do able solutions to fix this epidemic. If not we'll have some law/rule shoved down our throats that we don't agree with. If we don't participate in the fix, do we really have a voice afterwards?

I, like all of you, enjoy my guns, I love going out and shooting them. I love letting people at the range handle and shoot them. I enjoy being able to teach them about the weapons, the history etc. I'm not looking forward to the day that my hobby is curtailed or taken away from me.

Right now the buzz word is, school shootings, so we secure schools with single point entry, security screenings etc. Makes the schools safe, I'm for that. How do we prevent another shooting like the Pulse Nightclub, or the Vegas concert, or mall shootings. Again there isn't a "One fix fits all" solution.

How do we identify possible undesirables without turning it into a witch hunt?

Oh you've been to a mental health specialist so you can't own a gun because you might be homicidal. My unit sent me to see mental health after my mom died. Not because I was mental, homicidal, or suicidal. They did it so they could explain the grieving process to me and let me know they are there if I need to talk. They also sent us after each deployment just to touch base with us and talk to us about PTSD and the signs of it.

Or

You stated you'll kill or harm someonec ao you can't own guns anymore . Well I did say that, told the my daughters boy friend, well he became her ex immediately, that if he ever came near or touched my daughter again I'd kill him. Told him this in front of his parents. She came home with a black eye, this was her Senior year and just before graduation. Turned out it wasn't the first time he'd laid hands on her, apparently the previous bruises were under her clothes (The kicker his parents had witnessed this and stated to her if you listen to him it won't happen), but by God it was the last time. His daddy WAS the local Marine recruiter, until I made a phone call to a Marine Brigadier General that was in charge of recruiting for this area.

This is going to be a long hard ugly road, but we need to be a part of the solution, so we don't lose our rights. We as a nation don't react to the root cause of the issues, but to the effect of the actions. Let's fix the cause so we can prevent these acts from occurring in the first place.

[Darryl]

Can we move this to the Generator Discussion page?

Where is that??

Aaaahhhhh, I found it. Right next to the Alternator Discussion page? (I'm just pulling your leg!! )

[Junk Yard Dog]

They can blow me, I am tired of listening to their bullshit when we all know very well more legislation will not solve the problem of a broken society. If you are going to take away the rights of 18-21 year olds then remove their right to serve in the military as well. They are proposing we treat 18-21 year olds as children, and we do not send children to die for the country. Or make military service the gateway to full legal adult status. You serve then you become a full citizen at 18, drink, smoke, vote, buy handguns and rifles, full auto, whatever. None of this will solve school shootings or any of the other fucked up shit we see happening over and over.

[M39 Shooter]

21 and up for everything, no more draft,voting, cigarettes you name it. They act like immature children any way and i really don`t trust a lot of them after listening to them last night. I was 18 in the army and was sent to Grenada and i had an M16. I think i was mature enough to be there. But alot has changed since 1983. Did anyone else hear Dana Loesch ask the sheriff why the murderer got away with pulling a gun on other students before the school shooting ? It was reported, along with about 39 other acts by this nutcase. No arrest, no baker act just the nra and gun owners once again the scapegoats for this. They even booed a rape victim who said she wished she had a weapon to protect herself but was only 20 so she couldn`t. WE are in a fight for our existence, as gun owners ,nra members , American. They will use every means at their disposal to destroy the America we believe in and replace it with their socialist ideology. This shooting and the others may have been prevented if those in charge had done their jobs. I wrote to my governor, i asked him to demand a bill be put on his desk that would require a law enforcement presence at every school where the force is proportional to the size of the school and it`s student population. No nut job has ever attacked a police station that i know of, or a biker bar. Ya know why?

[Darryl]

No nut job has ever attacked a police station that i know of, or a biker bar. Ya know why?

As a side note. I sat on a jury three years ago. The guy robbed a biker bar and put a round through their mirror behind the bar. The police said none of the bikers in the bar could remember anything about the guy (yeah, right). He did have a mask on ....but. He was caught with the gun, and the mask, and in the truck he took off in. So, yes, there are people stupid enough to rob a biker bar. Most people wouldn't. But there are people who will go on a rampage on a military base. But for the most part, these guys are immature and either still in or just got out of high school and a school is where they are going to go to get revenge for something. It as soft a target as you can get.

[M39 Shooter]

My bad, as the young people say. I have no experience with biker bars in cali. Here in the deep south things are a little different. As far as an army major who turned on his fellow soldiers i`m sure no one in any law enforcement capacity had any idea he would do that.

[Sonny]

Get rid of violent video games and bring back spankings.

And maybe the school strap too.

[Brake Weight]

With FaceBook and all other social media many kids today are detached from reality. They’re brought up knowing everyone gets a participation trophy even if they are the world’s worst at whatever. It’s not the laws that have failed, its society as a whole. With more loose gun laws in the last 100 years prior, mass shootings were limited to organized crime.

I work in Mexico and was questioned yesterday by a Mexican about all the violence in the US. I had to laugh at him. He referred to the Vegas shooting and the recent school shooting and said that doesn’t happen in Mexico. “We have laws.” I laugh again and he seemed offended. He rambled on about how the people don’t have guns and these things don’t happen here. So I ask him how is it possible for entire villages to be killed off? Why are bodies piled up on the border? Why the richer people in cities have their kids and family kidnapped for ransom or are killed? Why were 100+ college students from Mexico City buried in a mass grave out in the jungle a few years ago? He stammered out an, ‘oh that.’ I go on to tell him this is what happens when you take guns away. School shootings are what happens when you take prayer away. He mumbled and walked away.

There was an incident yesterday at my oldest kid’s school. A 7th grader brought 2 toy guns to school in his backpack and kept them in it all day. Gets on the bus to go home and shows another kid whom snitched to his parents about it. They flip out and everything snowballed. Needless to say the kid with the toy guns is having to go to a private school to finish the year out. Should he have brought them? No. Should the other, his ‘friend’, tell? Technically, yes. Personally, no. Should those parents have contacted the school board before the other kid’s parents? Personally, no. Technically, yes. I believe 100% the parents that contacted the school likely do not own a single firearm. Dad probably doesn’t even carry a pocket knife. This is the society we’re living in today. No one wants to own up to anything and always passes the responsibility to another.

[steelbuttplate]

Get rid of violent video games and bring back spankings.

And maybe the school strap too.

RAP music is not really music, but rhythmic Violent rhetoric that desensitizes listeners to violent acts. Well some of it is.

[Junk Yard Dog]

I just read they had an armed officer attached to the school, the officer was there and did not enter the building were the shooting was occurring. His superiors fired him when they found out. I guess now he has to live with knowing an ROTC kid with gigantic brass balls stood tall and died facing the gunman and helping his friends escape while deputy shithead of the raisin nuts played it safe. Personally I would have beat him to within an inch of his life, and I hope some parent down there does it. Reminds me of Columbine were the SWAT teams stood outside for an eternity before going it. Lots of speeches about proper procedure, and proceeding with a plan, fuck you, when it's kids on the line you make like the Marines at Iwo Jima and storm the damn building and die if need be. What the fuck use are weapons in the hands of the " right" people if they are not going to stand and fight, but run and hide instead? The toughening up isn't just something the kids need, it's the last generation or two of adults as well, too many candy ass motherfuckers who look to someone else to take care of them. The Old Man at 19 walked point as his platoon attacked an SS camp, he absolutely, positively knew he was going to die, but he did it anyway. Turned out the SS had blown town the night before so he lived to fight another day, tough don't even start to cover shit like that, but then he wasn't raised soft and coddled like so many these last 30-40 years, he fought for and earned everything he got. Progressive education, the violence glamorized by the entire entertainment industry, an apathetic society with no grounding in basic morals, faithless, and willing to tolerate any wrong so long as they don't have to do anything about it. Oh, no, you won't see any of this dragged out into the light, we will just blame the weapon as always. Participation trophy...makes me want to puke.

[steelbuttplate]

Our schools went into lockdown this morning, around 7 am. Parents, teachers, students, buses, turned away because someone had posted on facebook there would be a shooting at a school in Ohio with similar initials to SCHS. A parent read it, called the principal, who locked down everything, called out swat team, the whole shebang. For some facebook shit two States away.

[+dhic]

Well said JYD. It doesn't help when the parents & teachers give the kid drugs instead of making them mind. They start the drugs
As young as pre-K. I get mad at the talking heads, the ones who are supposed to be pro 2nd amendment, call the mass murders
gun violence. They don't call all the deaths on the highways Car violence.
+dhic.

[awalker1829]

Can we move this to the Generator Discussion page?

Where is that??

Aaaahhhhh, I found it. Right next to the Alternator Discussion page? (I'm just pulling your leg!! )

That’s what I get for trusting autocorrect. Things are too easy for kids today. My high school class was the last at my school to get real typing instruction on real typewrites-first generation IBM Selectrics without the mechanical correction features. If you screwed up, you had to use Correctotype. That was enough to get me to brush up.

One thing that would reduce the attractiveness of schools as a place to commit mass murder would be to stop sensationalizing them. If one happens, give it a very brief mention and drop it. Don’t keep talking about it and don’t mention the shooter’s name any more than absolutely necessary.

At the other end of things, the educators need to get off their high horse and recognize that schools are an attractive target for certain reasons. Factually, they are a low risk, target rich environment. When I was in college, earning my degrees in Criminal Justice, a group of my classmates conducted a covert threat assessment of several public schools in our area. Our question was how well schools were prepared to detect security threats to staff and students. What we discovered was that the schools assessed were totally unprepared. At each school, the team was literally able to roam the campus unchallenged by staff, despite the requirements for visitors to check in at the office and obtain passes. They were able to enter the administrative areas unchallenged and see what security equipment was in use. They found that where cctv was in use, the displays were not monitored at all and some equipment was broken. Quite frankly, we were surprised at how lax security was.

What schools need is real, practical security. TSA style security is not a standard I would consider, as it is not designed to protect an entire facility. TSA only secures commercial air transportation terminals-not entire airports (and not totally satisfactorily at that).

[Sonny]

Great stories everyone.. I wish I could add something to the conversation ..

But Alas" I was born in a simpler" time...

[bbvideo=560,315]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TvSXdO7SDCE[/bbvideo]

[Fledge]

In this latest instance the system broke down. How many times could the authorities have had reason to lock this nutcase up? The police and the FBI failed. It is a scary world. There are a lot of unstable people wandering around that shouldn't be. Years ago they were committed, but now that is considered inhuman.

[Junk Yard Dog]

There were no simple times, times for most were tough, war, economic depression, disease, a hard life of endless toil until one died were the lot of most people. Never in the history of the human species have we ever had it this easy. Every sort of labor saving device from microwaves to online shopping, miracle medicine, instant communication , rapid transport, hell, they don't even put dipsticks in most vehicles anymore for checking oil, the computers do it for you. The average person now has more free time and toys than the wealthy of 150 years ago. We have war, men and women come home from it shredded up and missing parts while the population at large remains mostly disconnected from it and some even unaware, and far too many don't seem to care. Oh yea, we have drugs to shape behavior, drugs to make lives easier for educators and parents. We have a system that punishes parents for punishing children, I am not saying bring back the razor strop, but definitely a good spanking has it's place, and for severe infractions dads belt. That's assuming there is a dad in the picture, because the traditional family structure has broken down and been replaced by what? Not every traditional family in the good old days was perfect, far from it, but kids still got raised with some sense of responsibility, morality, the ability to understand right from wrong, we had a community of parents raising kids and imparting these things to them. We learned to value anything we had because the adults made sure we worked for it, we weren't given praise unless we earned it. Adults commanded respect, and respect was given at risk of a good kick in the ass. I heard a 19 year old tell his father to shut up the other day and dad did just that, my father would have smacked the back of my head so hard my eyeballs would have flown out. Parents weren't friends, they were authority figures who we knew loved us but who set down rules and Lord above help us if we violated them, there was no wiggle room, or drugs to correct our behavior. There was the belt for that and we respected that, break the rules and pay the price, follow the rules and everybody is cool. Worse yet for us the entire neighborhood of parents worked together to enforce our behavior, misbehave away from home and if the nearest parent didn't smack your ass they would pick up the phone and it would be waiting for you at home. All this is now gone replaced by pharmacopeia, and experimental progressive ways of raising kids. No parent I know would have allowed their kids to see the kind of shit that passes for entertainment today, poison in music, games, movies and TV, even in books. Drug the shit out of the kids, pour poison into their souls, remove discipline, remove respect, remove boundaries, I am only surprised spree killings don't happen more often. Empathy and compassion for the pain and suffering of others, be it taught by religion or by parents is something kids learn, and if it's not taught then what the fuck do you end up with? Kids that take weapons to school and slaughter dozens of people, then go get a drink at MacDonald's.

4 minutes, how the fuck do you stand right outside while children are being slaughtered for four minutes and do nothing? 4 minutes is an eternity, I know some guys who would have gone in that building with nothing but their dicks in their hands if need be. I also know too many would have run the other way. I would have gone in, because if I didn't then I would have gone home and blown the top of my fucking head off, no way I could live with knowing I didn't step up. I wasn't raised up in the progressive manner of today were you run from your troubles and wait for the authorities to come and make it all better, seems the kids wearing ROTC uniforms somehow weren't raised in that system either. That's just me, I am told I am a nasty old fuck, and maybe that's true, I have spent a lifetime in a tough business dealing with tough people. I have had guns pointed in my direction, and I have done things when need be to enforce discipline and respect out of people who weren't inclined to give such on their own. I am so fucking disgusted with what our society has degenerated into, apathetic morons who elect same to office, and who think they can legislate their problems away. Crybaby motherfuckers and yellow belly cowards, strength of character is a learned behavior and too many kids don't have a good example to learn from at home or school. The millennials are a fucked over generation, not all to be sure, there are still some places and people who raised kids right, but that is increasingly rare. Even worse are their kids, of whom the latest soulless motherfucker is one. I have no answers or comfort to give here, we are fucked, and I see it only degenerating worse in the future. The shitbirds in power will try and legislate the problems away, they will eventually pass legislation removing or extremely limiting our firearms freedoms that will make no difference at all to the problems they are trying to solve. Sooner or later those of us who do have strength of character will have to start resisting the ones in power who do not, but by then I will probably be safely dead. My God, we have a clusterfuck of unimaginable proportions heading our way.

[thughes]

Want a suggestion to curtail this type of violence? Stop making pop culture icons out of these assholes!

If the press (all of the press and all of social media) refused to publish the name and face of these sickos, taking away the notoriety they seek, that would remove 99% of the reason these individuals plot these shootings in the first place. Of course, that would also leave the 24 hour news cycle content producers in a hurt for lack of anything to drive ratings.

Just my