Anyone loaded a .308 AP bullet into a

[1911A1 Range Officer]

Anyone loaded a .308 AP bullet into a 7.62x54R case? I know it would be small for the bore, but I'm not concerned about accuracy. I was just curious if you did this, if it would pass though 1" of mild steel at close range. I have seen a video with the steel core russian 54R that made HUGE craters in 1" of mild steel but wouldn't pass though. Looked like it had the energy, but the bullet design was not sufficient. Curious if a .308AP bullet with it's much much harder core would pass though?

[bunkysdad]

First of all it would have to not keyhole which undersized bullets tend to do, however it would be worth a try.

[Brake Weight]

Isn't 7.62x51 NATO equivalent to 308w?

[boltaction]

Hello, 1911A1, How close is, close distance. Make sure your target has some give to it, if your too close. You wouldn't want to shot yourself. Have fun??? And BW, yes, 7.62x51 NATO is .308 win. But, the 7.62x54 bullet/bore is actually a bit larger .310-.312, that's why BD refers to a possible key hole effect with the bullet impact.

[Brake Weight]

Doesn't the keyhole effect normally occur as the bullet loses its spin and velocity causing it to tumble?

[1911A1 Range Officer]

It might be possible to powder coat the bullets to build up the outer diameter enough to prevent key holeing, maybe take it to .310. If that is also the case I was under the impression that you could load pretty "warm" 54R loads that would exceed the velocity for the same weight offered by 7.62x51 and still be reasonably "safe". As the Mosin Nagant is built like a tank. I don't base this off any reloading data, but rather a test I have seen of a Mosin with some SERIOUSLY over pressure rounds purposly loaded and fired in one. I wouldn't be going crazy, and would be watching the brass closely. And I realize because THAT mosin took it like a champ, doesn't mean mine would.

I just wanted to see if you guys thought I was crazy and or if it has already been done. I was honestly hopeing someone had already done it.

*edit* I suppose I could also work up a few at the max SAMMI pressure and send them to someone with a mosin with a .308 barrel for testing.

[JIMPARKS]

This topic makes me wonder about the minor variance between Sierra .308 168 gr bthp bullets vs surplus. 52.5 grains of IMR 4350 and standard large rifle primers is producing 1/2" to 3/4" groups in my 34 Tula 91/30. I've loaded 310 and 311 diameter bullets but never got anywhere near the accuracy out of the .308.????

[JIMPARKS]

This weekend I tried out .308 Berger bullets 168 gr with 52.5 grains H4350. Compared to .308 sierra 168 grain with the same load - almost identical results. First two round touching with the third round 1"right and high. Either of these will be my hunting load. First shot is the only shot that counts.

[Outpost75]

When I was stationed at MCDEC, Quantico, VA in the early 1980s we did comparison firings of opposing forces small arms as demonstrations for students the Marine Embassy Guards School, firing the RPK, PKM and various RPGs at armored and unarmored automobiles, and typical "guard shack" construction with various types of metal and ceramic armor hardening and sandbagged barricades with and without RPG screens.

Because of the difficulty of then getting adequate stock of reliable Soviet 7.62mm AP or heavy Ball "D" ammunition, familiarization firings were conducted with more common mild steel core LPS Ball, whereas the adequacy of protective measures was evaluated firing cal. .30 APM2 from Winchester Model 70 rifles in the Scout-Sniper School inventory, or where assessing the effect of multiple hits was required, by firing a 10-round burst from the Browning MG.

Limited firings were done experimentally with handloaded ammunition in the Combloc weapons. Accuracy and penetration performance of handloaded APM2 bullets fired in the SVD and PKM was inferior to shooting LC43 cal. .30 APM2 from a Winchester Model 70, Garand or M1919 Browning machinegun. Given adequate neck tension to hold the bullet securely in the case, secure crimp to prevent inertial debulleting, when extracting unfired rounds, and a compressed powder charge to positively prevent bullets from telescoping into the case during the feed cycle, yes, pulled APM2 or similar ".30 caliber" bullets can be made "to work," but are less than ideal.

Using such rounds in a bolt action rifle should function well given its gentler feed cycle, and AP bullets will shoot reasonably well within 200 yards, if the bore is unworn.

The greater ratio of length to diameter of the 168-grain APM2 cal. .30 bullet precludes reaching adequate velocity for normal penetration performance, when loaded in smaller cartridge cases such as the 7.62x54R, 7.62 NATO or .303 British, because the bullet base intrudes deeply into the powder space, increasing loading density while reducing powder capacity. While LC43 cal. .30 APM2 ammunition fired in the Garand obtained 2750 fps, it was not possible to exceed 2500 fps in the 7.62 NATO, or 7.62x54R without dropped primers, using the powders then available to us, such as IMR4895 and WC846.

I would not be inclined to experiment without the benefit of pressure test barrels and reference ammunition to determine proper charge establishment.