Drago's DDR TUTORIAL (sticky)
Drago's DDR TUTORIAL (sticky)
I think perhaps it's time to update some information, ideas and crazy theories about a little known variant of the SKS rifle. Many of you have probably now heard of the Russian DDR SKS. I'm not talking about the SKS that was actually manufactured BY the East Germans in 1960 (Karabiner S), but the Russian SKS's that seem to have made their way to East Germany via contract or loan program and then back to Mother Russia.
These have been spotted since SKS collecting began, but little thought was put towards them until recent years. They were just considered another quirky variant of a common Russian SKS. I suppose it's like any new discovery...Until you see enough examples, they just don't stand out. I've personally been collecting them for about 9 months and have completely swapped out most of my "regular" Russian Tula SKS's and focused on this particular variant. I have discovered some interesting things, because I have a bunch of them to compare to, sitting side by side each other.
But before I get into what may be "new" or "theoretical" information, I'll explain what is commonly known about the Ex-DDR, so you collectors out there know what to basically look for. Ex-DDR's are called that because after the East Germans were done with them, they were returned back to Russia, thus the "ex" or "former" DDR designation.
How to quickly spot one:
1. The Ex-DDR will always have it's serial number (S/N) horizontally stamped on the left side of the upper handguard as shown in the following pic examples:
2. The Ex-DDR will usually, but not always, have the same serial number stamped horizontally on the butt stock. I say not always, because I own an example that does not, but it is on a non-refurb'd Izhevsk. That's a whole different cat in of herself and may be an exception to the rule. For the most part, look for this:
3. A "Triangle 1" mark. This is more difficult to find for the novice, because more often than not, the mark is a "light strike", leaving only a partial stamping or the person simply doesn't know what the mark looks like or where it is located. Many Ex-DDR SKS's are also "BBQ" painted, which may have inadvertently covered this light stamping. In text, we write "Triangle 1" as /1\. Here are some pics of what you may discover:
A pretty standard looking /1\ mark and what to expect to find.
This mark was barely noticeable, almost hidden, but was still "above" the line of the stock. You can just make out "something" just to the left and below the S/N.
This is what was discovered underneath, after taking stock off. This /1\ is actually upside down.
/1\ mark found below the stock. Even after telling the seller where to look, he still said this rifle was not an Ex-DDR. I was able to pick it up for less, because of this, yet here the mark is! This /1\ is sitting at 45 degrees.
Sometimes, the /1\ just looks like a scratch. Until, I inspected this one with a magnifying glass AND knew what I was looking for, this mark was undetermined as a /1\. Good thing I did look closer, because this is on a nice 1954 Izhevsk SKS still in her original KBI importer box.
This mark is generally found just to the left of the receiver serial number, but can sometimes be found under the receiver serial number, below the line of the stock. The stock must be taken off in order to find it, if it exists. Here are some pics of that location:
I personally, have owned 4 "Stock Stamping Confirmed" (horizontally stamped) DDR's that did not have a /1\ anywhere. Therein lies some controversy. There are two camps of thought here.
One, that in order for a Russian SKS to even be considered as an Ex-DDR, it MUST have first, the /1\ mark somewhere on the receiver, then second, the horizontal S/N stampings on her stock. This school of thought assumes the /1\ is some form of East German "property" mark and as such only rifles with it are true Ex-DDR's (This thought, I believe, stems from information gathered from certain German captured Mosin Nagants with a similar looking, albeit a bit more archaic symbol. See pic.
Commonly accepted "East German Property" mark on a Mosin Nagant
There has been some increased acceptance that the /1\ is some form of quality or performance mark, instead of a property mark. In my personal observations, I have yet to find anything that suggests this to be the case. However, if one assumes that perhaps that mark is not a property mark or that for whatever reasons, the East German's did not always place it there, or that it's not even a mark the East German's stamped, but some other entity placed there, then the doors open for some new and interesting ideas. This is technically the second school of thought. Simply, we just do not have enough information about the /1\ to say for certain what it truly is. I will go into some deep schools of thought on this later.
One thing that does always keep coming back to me, though, EVERYTIME a /1\ mark is found, the stock always corresponds with the horizontal stamped S/N. However, not all Ex-DDR marked stocks have the /1\. If you think about it, the /1\ mark helped to designate horizontally marked stocks as unique, but common amongst themselves. So we know that horizontally stamped S/N's are East German. We also know this because the Karabiner S SKS rifles, were produced by the East Germans and carry the same form of S/N stamping on their stocks.
If you have an SKS with a S/N that matches the receiver, the upper handguard and the buttstock, then logically it fits in with how we know the East Germans stamped their stocks, thus automatically making the rifle an Ex-DDR, even if the /1\ is not present. This may also suggest that, what we currently think the reason for /1\ is, might not be correct (Property Mark). I'll go into some theories on this later.
4. Another item that I recently discovered was a pattern amongst 9 out of 10 Ex-DDR SKS's and their bayonets. While inspecting all of my rifles, I discovered tiny markings upon the bayonets. All but one of my other regular non-DDR Russian SKS's did not have bayonets that were marked at all. I even looked at 3 non-refurbs, nothing. The marks that I discovered varied, but I found what I think is a /3\, a /B\ and even one that resembles a /R\. I think teh /R\ is the most common. On a few bayonets, I also found an additional mark that was a tiny circle with something inside (see example below). Typical of all these Ex-DDR stampings, they are only partially marked or so lightly struck as to make it difficult to determine that actual mark, past that it IS marked. Some pics of my Ex-DDR bayonets:
Great shot of the /R\ and the hint of another circle mark. Nice deep, rich stiking, but the circle mark is only partially struck.
Regarding Black Bayonets, it's commonly understood that a black bayonet is a sign of a refurb. While this may be the case on a regular refurb'd Russian, this may NOT be the case when the bayonet is sitting on an Ex-DDR SKS. There is the notion floating around (Of which I tend to subscribe to), that a certain number of Ex-DDR SKS's were specifically given a black bayonet. One thought is that it was because certain East German units were required to have a non-glare bayonet. Perhaps they were a special forces type unit? I don't know. I do know that I own a 1954 Izhevsk non-refurb, with Ex-DDR S/N stampings in the stock and she has a black bayonet. The black bayonet was placed on there by the East Germans for some reason. Why, I have yet to determine. Black bayonets on Ex-DDR's may also have been some form of ceremonial rifle. We may never know, but don't discount that Russian sitting on a gunshow table with a black bayonet, assuming it's a refurb. Go look her over, you may have struck Ex-DDR gold!
5. Stock coloring. Just the other day I spotted an Ex-DDR rifle in a picture. In this picture were 3 Russian SKS's and they were all laying on their left sides. No S/N's could be seen obviously, but I could tell from just the way the stocks looked that there might be an Ex-DDR candidate sitting there. Sure enough, there was one and it ended up having the horizontally stamped S/N and the /1\ was also present.
So what was my secret? Nothing really, other than seeing enough Ex-DDR's to see a coloring commonality on many of their stocks. Not always, but very often, they will have very dark splotches with light. They aren't necessarily the typical "fiery" or "tiger striped" stocks commonly associated with Russian SKS's sitting in Arctic Birch hardwood stocks, but of a different color.
Typical Russian hardwood stock with nice coloring. Notice the "redder" light area's.
Typical Ex-DDR stocks. Notice the almost "char-coaled" look in the dark area's. I think some were actually char-coaled, then reshellac'd, then S/N stamped.
1949 Russian DDR (right side)
1949 Russian DDR (left side)
Close up of Buttstock
1954 Russian DDR (right side)
1954 Russian DDR (left side)
Close up of Buttstock
Of course, not ALL Ex-DDR's will have brillant contrasting stocks. Some will look more traditional as in this 1954 Izhevsk DDR, but look for the "charcoaled" areas. You can see it under the deep garnet shellac.
There are many ways to spot an Ex-DDR, so make certain you look them over very carefully. I'm sure I'm forgetting something and we may also find new ways to spot them, so this is certainly not an all encompassing or "finished" tutorial. My goal is to help inform the uninformed and make the love of SKS collecting more rewarding for all of us.
I will add my "theories" at a later date, but wanted to get this up on the board, as we all know, SKS's aren't getting easier to find and time may be a missed opportunity!
(Disclaimer - I am by no means an expert on the Ex-DDR, so feel free to disagree, complain and discuss any and all items I have written. I simply have compiled my personal observations. -Drago)
These have been spotted since SKS collecting began, but little thought was put towards them until recent years. They were just considered another quirky variant of a common Russian SKS. I suppose it's like any new discovery...Until you see enough examples, they just don't stand out. I've personally been collecting them for about 9 months and have completely swapped out most of my "regular" Russian Tula SKS's and focused on this particular variant. I have discovered some interesting things, because I have a bunch of them to compare to, sitting side by side each other.
But before I get into what may be "new" or "theoretical" information, I'll explain what is commonly known about the Ex-DDR, so you collectors out there know what to basically look for. Ex-DDR's are called that because after the East Germans were done with them, they were returned back to Russia, thus the "ex" or "former" DDR designation.
How to quickly spot one:
1. The Ex-DDR will always have it's serial number (S/N) horizontally stamped on the left side of the upper handguard as shown in the following pic examples:
2. The Ex-DDR will usually, but not always, have the same serial number stamped horizontally on the butt stock. I say not always, because I own an example that does not, but it is on a non-refurb'd Izhevsk. That's a whole different cat in of herself and may be an exception to the rule. For the most part, look for this:
3. A "Triangle 1" mark. This is more difficult to find for the novice, because more often than not, the mark is a "light strike", leaving only a partial stamping or the person simply doesn't know what the mark looks like or where it is located. Many Ex-DDR SKS's are also "BBQ" painted, which may have inadvertently covered this light stamping. In text, we write "Triangle 1" as /1\. Here are some pics of what you may discover:
A pretty standard looking /1\ mark and what to expect to find.
This mark was barely noticeable, almost hidden, but was still "above" the line of the stock. You can just make out "something" just to the left and below the S/N.
This is what was discovered underneath, after taking stock off. This /1\ is actually upside down.
/1\ mark found below the stock. Even after telling the seller where to look, he still said this rifle was not an Ex-DDR. I was able to pick it up for less, because of this, yet here the mark is! This /1\ is sitting at 45 degrees.
Sometimes, the /1\ just looks like a scratch. Until, I inspected this one with a magnifying glass AND knew what I was looking for, this mark was undetermined as a /1\. Good thing I did look closer, because this is on a nice 1954 Izhevsk SKS still in her original KBI importer box.
This mark is generally found just to the left of the receiver serial number, but can sometimes be found under the receiver serial number, below the line of the stock. The stock must be taken off in order to find it, if it exists. Here are some pics of that location:
I personally, have owned 4 "Stock Stamping Confirmed" (horizontally stamped) DDR's that did not have a /1\ anywhere. Therein lies some controversy. There are two camps of thought here.
One, that in order for a Russian SKS to even be considered as an Ex-DDR, it MUST have first, the /1\ mark somewhere on the receiver, then second, the horizontal S/N stampings on her stock. This school of thought assumes the /1\ is some form of East German "property" mark and as such only rifles with it are true Ex-DDR's (This thought, I believe, stems from information gathered from certain German captured Mosin Nagants with a similar looking, albeit a bit more archaic symbol. See pic.
Commonly accepted "East German Property" mark on a Mosin Nagant
There has been some increased acceptance that the /1\ is some form of quality or performance mark, instead of a property mark. In my personal observations, I have yet to find anything that suggests this to be the case. However, if one assumes that perhaps that mark is not a property mark or that for whatever reasons, the East German's did not always place it there, or that it's not even a mark the East German's stamped, but some other entity placed there, then the doors open for some new and interesting ideas. This is technically the second school of thought. Simply, we just do not have enough information about the /1\ to say for certain what it truly is. I will go into some deep schools of thought on this later.
One thing that does always keep coming back to me, though, EVERYTIME a /1\ mark is found, the stock always corresponds with the horizontal stamped S/N. However, not all Ex-DDR marked stocks have the /1\. If you think about it, the /1\ mark helped to designate horizontally marked stocks as unique, but common amongst themselves. So we know that horizontally stamped S/N's are East German. We also know this because the Karabiner S SKS rifles, were produced by the East Germans and carry the same form of S/N stamping on their stocks.
If you have an SKS with a S/N that matches the receiver, the upper handguard and the buttstock, then logically it fits in with how we know the East Germans stamped their stocks, thus automatically making the rifle an Ex-DDR, even if the /1\ is not present. This may also suggest that, what we currently think the reason for /1\ is, might not be correct (Property Mark). I'll go into some theories on this later.
4. Another item that I recently discovered was a pattern amongst 9 out of 10 Ex-DDR SKS's and their bayonets. While inspecting all of my rifles, I discovered tiny markings upon the bayonets. All but one of my other regular non-DDR Russian SKS's did not have bayonets that were marked at all. I even looked at 3 non-refurbs, nothing. The marks that I discovered varied, but I found what I think is a /3\, a /B\ and even one that resembles a /R\. I think teh /R\ is the most common. On a few bayonets, I also found an additional mark that was a tiny circle with something inside (see example below). Typical of all these Ex-DDR stampings, they are only partially marked or so lightly struck as to make it difficult to determine that actual mark, past that it IS marked. Some pics of my Ex-DDR bayonets:
Great shot of the /R\ and the hint of another circle mark. Nice deep, rich stiking, but the circle mark is only partially struck.
Regarding Black Bayonets, it's commonly understood that a black bayonet is a sign of a refurb. While this may be the case on a regular refurb'd Russian, this may NOT be the case when the bayonet is sitting on an Ex-DDR SKS. There is the notion floating around (Of which I tend to subscribe to), that a certain number of Ex-DDR SKS's were specifically given a black bayonet. One thought is that it was because certain East German units were required to have a non-glare bayonet. Perhaps they were a special forces type unit? I don't know. I do know that I own a 1954 Izhevsk non-refurb, with Ex-DDR S/N stampings in the stock and she has a black bayonet. The black bayonet was placed on there by the East Germans for some reason. Why, I have yet to determine. Black bayonets on Ex-DDR's may also have been some form of ceremonial rifle. We may never know, but don't discount that Russian sitting on a gunshow table with a black bayonet, assuming it's a refurb. Go look her over, you may have struck Ex-DDR gold!
5. Stock coloring. Just the other day I spotted an Ex-DDR rifle in a picture. In this picture were 3 Russian SKS's and they were all laying on their left sides. No S/N's could be seen obviously, but I could tell from just the way the stocks looked that there might be an Ex-DDR candidate sitting there. Sure enough, there was one and it ended up having the horizontally stamped S/N and the /1\ was also present.
So what was my secret? Nothing really, other than seeing enough Ex-DDR's to see a coloring commonality on many of their stocks. Not always, but very often, they will have very dark splotches with light. They aren't necessarily the typical "fiery" or "tiger striped" stocks commonly associated with Russian SKS's sitting in Arctic Birch hardwood stocks, but of a different color.
Typical Russian hardwood stock with nice coloring. Notice the "redder" light area's.
Typical Ex-DDR stocks. Notice the almost "char-coaled" look in the dark area's. I think some were actually char-coaled, then reshellac'd, then S/N stamped.
1949 Russian DDR (right side)
1949 Russian DDR (left side)
Close up of Buttstock
1954 Russian DDR (right side)
1954 Russian DDR (left side)
Close up of Buttstock
Of course, not ALL Ex-DDR's will have brillant contrasting stocks. Some will look more traditional as in this 1954 Izhevsk DDR, but look for the "charcoaled" areas. You can see it under the deep garnet shellac.
There are many ways to spot an Ex-DDR, so make certain you look them over very carefully. I'm sure I'm forgetting something and we may also find new ways to spot them, so this is certainly not an all encompassing or "finished" tutorial. My goal is to help inform the uninformed and make the love of SKS collecting more rewarding for all of us.
I will add my "theories" at a later date, but wanted to get this up on the board, as we all know, SKS's aren't getting easier to find and time may be a missed opportunity!
(Disclaimer - I am by no means an expert on the Ex-DDR, so feel free to disagree, complain and discuss any and all items I have written. I simply have compiled my personal observations. -Drago)
Last edited by Drago on Thu May 10, 2012 9:05 am, edited 3 times in total.
Re: Drago's DDR TUTORIAL
New here, but not new to Ex-DDR debates and discussions. My Ex-DDR collection is a grand total of one... but it does exhibit the classic characteristics of an Ex-DDR.
Re: Drago's DDR TUTORIAL
Thanks for the write-up. But now you are going to have some competition. Everybody knows what to look for!
I'll put forth the third postulation. The /1\ and/or the horizontal numbering are present for the reason that the guns were refurbished in East Germany - much like the present understanding of the DDR mark as it pertains to Mosin Nagants. This would not necessarily mean that the gun was issued, loaned, or sold to East Germany, but that it was contracted for refurbishment there.
The bottom line is - we don't know. And without documentation, all theories are just speculation. Recently, the /1\ as it pertains to Mosin Nagant stamping has also come under some question as to its purpose (not its origin). So, I have to stick with the camp of, "I don't know."
The black bayonet is a refurbishment accessory on an SKS. I have yet to see one with original staking of the fastener screw.
On the stock color scheme, that is interesting. I have two stocks with DDR horizontal numbering, and both have the extremely vivid splotching as you have described. My other Russian refurbished stocks are rather dull in comparison. Hmmmm.....
I'll put forth the third postulation. The /1\ and/or the horizontal numbering are present for the reason that the guns were refurbished in East Germany - much like the present understanding of the DDR mark as it pertains to Mosin Nagants. This would not necessarily mean that the gun was issued, loaned, or sold to East Germany, but that it was contracted for refurbishment there.
The bottom line is - we don't know. And without documentation, all theories are just speculation. Recently, the /1\ as it pertains to Mosin Nagant stamping has also come under some question as to its purpose (not its origin). So, I have to stick with the camp of, "I don't know."
The black bayonet is a refurbishment accessory on an SKS. I have yet to see one with original staking of the fastener screw.
On the stock color scheme, that is interesting. I have two stocks with DDR horizontal numbering, and both have the extremely vivid splotching as you have described. My other Russian refurbished stocks are rather dull in comparison. Hmmmm.....
No words of wisdom come to mind at this time....
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Re: Drago's DDR TUTORIAL
Hi Andy (acl864)! Welcome, welcome!
You could be right, Martin. Andy & I have been emailing back and forth on just that possibility, among others, that the German's just "fixed 'em", but they saw little or no actual implementation into their own military. Like you said, we just don't know. It could be that the German re-arsenal facility had a standard stock marking system to denote/signature their work which would be easily recognized by others. Why that would matter, who knows.
I've been playing with the idea that only certain "levels" of refurbishment received the /1\. It's obvious that on many, the stocks were removed, then stamped. If you look at my Izhevsk, she seems to be a non-refurb except for the black bayonet. Perhaps she didn't need anything and thus was not hit with the /1\, say a "level 1" look her over, yeah she's good, stamped the handguard, put on a black bayo (who knows why) and off she went back to Russia. It's all a head-scratcher, but out of the few Russian variants, the ex-DDR is the most fun for me to play with ideas on. Most other Russians are pretty straight forward in their 60+ year interpretations.
I'm no longer worried about competition, as I think I am slowing way down on my collecting of them. I went crazy there for awhile and forgot that I actually like a few other guns besides SKS's. My friend with the '49 DDR has offered it to me and with that, I'll have a complete set + extra's. I'm even selling off some DDR's. Time to work on my Mosin's, which is the main reason I joined here!
I appreciate all of your help, too!
You could be right, Martin. Andy & I have been emailing back and forth on just that possibility, among others, that the German's just "fixed 'em", but they saw little or no actual implementation into their own military. Like you said, we just don't know. It could be that the German re-arsenal facility had a standard stock marking system to denote/signature their work which would be easily recognized by others. Why that would matter, who knows.
I've been playing with the idea that only certain "levels" of refurbishment received the /1\. It's obvious that on many, the stocks were removed, then stamped. If you look at my Izhevsk, she seems to be a non-refurb except for the black bayonet. Perhaps she didn't need anything and thus was not hit with the /1\, say a "level 1" look her over, yeah she's good, stamped the handguard, put on a black bayo (who knows why) and off she went back to Russia. It's all a head-scratcher, but out of the few Russian variants, the ex-DDR is the most fun for me to play with ideas on. Most other Russians are pretty straight forward in their 60+ year interpretations.
I'm no longer worried about competition, as I think I am slowing way down on my collecting of them. I went crazy there for awhile and forgot that I actually like a few other guns besides SKS's. My friend with the '49 DDR has offered it to me and with that, I'll have a complete set + extra's. I'm even selling off some DDR's. Time to work on my Mosin's, which is the main reason I joined here!
I appreciate all of your help, too!
Re: Drago's DDR TUTORIAL
Thanks for the great post. After reading it I have a question about mine. I had no idea about the DDR connection until Martin08 pointed it out to me a few weeks ago. Since then I have been looking at it anew, and noticed this. The ser# is OK4976. This number is stamped on the receiver, the stock, and the handguard, but on the magazine, and trigger guard, it is stamped OK4876. Did Klaus have one to many at lunch that day?
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“Freedom is the right to tell people what they do not want to hear.” George Orwell, English novelist, essayist, and critic, 1903-1950
Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.
C. S. Lewis
Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.
C. S. Lewis
Re: Drago's DDR TUTORIAL
Mill, I suspect that when it came time to match all the parts to the rifle in final assy, that possibly the matching S/N trigger assy and magazine were not to be found, so they just grabbed another close numbered one. I can't think of any other reason. I didn't realize your upper handguard also had a matching S/N stamping. That is super cool and very, very uncommon to see on a DDR. That proves that "Bubba" didn't swap the hardwood upper out with a lammie one.
Re: Drago's DDR TUTORIAL
Thanks Drago.
“Freedom is the right to tell people what they do not want to hear.” George Orwell, English novelist, essayist, and critic, 1903-1950
Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.
C. S. Lewis
Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.
C. S. Lewis
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Re: Drago's DDR TUTORIAL
That is my guess also. Since each rifle was fitted, they had to keep careful track of each final assembly. But, lost it once in awhile.Drago wrote:Mill, I suspect that when it came time to match all the parts to the rifle in final assy, that possibly the matching S/N trigger assy and magazine were not to be found, so they just grabbed another close numbered one. I can't think of any other reason. I didn't realize your upper handguard also had a matching S/N stamping. That is super cool and very, very uncommon to see on a DDR. That proves that "Bubba" didn't swap the hardwood upper out with a lammie one.
The Yugo used ep and a lead pencil to keep track on the later years assembly process. We will see even more things from these rifles as time goes on!
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Re: Drago's DDR TUTORIAL
The only SKSs I see at shops or shows any more are the Yugos, which sell around here in the high $200.00s. If I were to see one of the DDRs , or for that matter, a Russian SKS, what would be a fair price to pay for them? (The last one I bought was in the mid 90s and I paid $79.00)
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acl864
Welcome Andy!
This is a nice place to be for a gun person. I don't have to look at all the cut up and ruined Military rifles over here.
I love it!
This is a nice place to be for a gun person. I don't have to look at all the cut up and ruined Military rifles over here.
I love it!
Happiness is owning Swedish Mausers!
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Re: Drago's DDR TUTORIAL
That is a serious tough question to give an average price on. The Russians are few in numbers and value depends on condition, year of manufacture, refurb. or original. Depending on that, for a Russian I guess low of $280 to some $800 on occasion. I'm going by Gun Brokers past sales of Tulas. Now take an IzhevskSA1911a1 wrote:The only SKSs I see at shops or shows any more are the Yugos, which sell around here in the high $200.00s. If I were to see one of the DDRs , or for that matter, a Russian SKS, what would be a fair price to pay for them? (The last one I bought was in the mid 90s and I paid $79.00)
and all bets are off. I have seen the heavy refurb. BBQ 1953 Izhevsk rifles, go $500 and up. Now, a 53 Izhevsk original, sky is the limit on price. A real nice 54 Izhevsk original, about $600 on up.
Thing is with the Russians, do a lot of study so that when you do see one, you will recognize what it really is. There are certain common clues that identify one
as to whether it has value or not. If you can get pics of one, take some of every S/N on it, all stock stampings on both sides of rifle stock, both sides of stock around the front cross bolt, bayo peen area. Stock wrist markings. Every where is better. There are several here in this section that can help you a lot if there are good clear pics. Having said that, a lot of sellers do not know what they have, or their photo lay out on an auction is so poor most do not really know what it is either. That is what I seek when I buy a Russian Original. I have yet to have to pay their inflated prices for a single one when I find the aforementioned condition. Lack of knowledge by the public and dealers of the Russian is a collectors best friend!
Happiness is owning Swedish Mausers!
Re: Drago's DDR TUTORIAL
The likelihood of finding one like Drago's (Izhevsk arsenal, original bluing, original stock) is next to nil. Most have the BBQ-Grill paint, refinished stocks, and possibly a few scrubbed parts. The majority of them will at least be force matched, though. Just a year and a half ago, the DDR marked Russians were commanding a $50-100 premium over native Russian guns. But with exposure to the unique markings, many collectors dug some SKS's out of the closet and found that they had DDR's, too. So, what was once thought to be only a few rare units, turned into the "somewhat uncommon" category. People haven't been as likely to pay a premium as more and more of them surface.SA1911a1 wrote:The only SKSs I see at shops or shows any more are the Yugos, which sell around here in the high $200.00s. If I were to see one of the DDRs , or for that matter, a Russian SKS, what would be a fair price to pay for them? (The last one I bought was in the mid 90s and I paid $79.00)
$350 - $425 would be a good deal on one. Up to $500 for a REALLY nice one.
No words of wisdom come to mind at this time....
Re: Drago's DDR TUTORIAL
Wow, excellent information! I have read it twice already tonight and will have to read it again in the morning over a cup of coffee
I need a smart phone so when I am standing at the rack I can quickly access this forum!
Thanks for all the effort you put into this Drago!
I need a smart phone so when I am standing at the rack I can quickly access this forum!
Thanks for all the effort you put into this Drago!
Cocked, locked and ready to rock...
- Junk Yard Dog
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Re: Drago's DDR TUTORIAL
Looks like I will have to dig out my Soviet SKS a few years ahead of schedule and check if for DDR markings. It's been in cosmoline storage for years and for the life of me I don't remember what markings are on it other than Tula and 1950. Tiny marks like that will require me to run a glass over it to see them. Maybe after the holidays.
Leave it as it is. The ages have been at work on it and man can only mar it.
Don't hit at all if it is honorably possible to avoid hitting; but never hit soft.
Theodore Roosevelt
Don't hit at all if it is honorably possible to avoid hitting; but never hit soft.
Theodore Roosevelt
Re: acl864
Thanks for the welcome. Hey it's a free country if somebody is dumb enough to bubba a nice milsurp that's there prerogative. At least here I don't have to look at the results of their handiwork...OLD OUTLAW wrote:Welcome Andy!
This is a nice place to be for a gun person. I don't have to look at all the cut up and ruined Military rifles over here.
I love it!
Re: Drago's DDR TUTORIAL
FWIW- A nice Ex-DDR listed for $425 in the classifieds of another forum sold in about an hour...martin08 wrote:The likelihood of finding one like Drago's (Izhevsk arsenal, original bluing, original stock) is next to nil. Most have the BBQ-Grill paint, refinished stocks, and possibly a few scrubbed parts. The majority of them will at least be force matched, though. Just a year and a half ago, the DDR marked Russians were commanding a $50-100 premium over native Russian guns. But with exposure to the unique markings, many collectors dug some SKS's out of the closet and found that they had DDR's, too. So, what was once thought to be only a few rare units, turned into the "somewhat uncommon" category. People haven't been as likely to pay a premium as more and more of them surface.SA1911a1 wrote:The only SKSs I see at shops or shows any more are the Yugos, which sell around here in the high $200.00s. If I were to see one of the DDRs , or for that matter, a Russian SKS, what would be a fair price to pay for them? (The last one I bought was in the mid 90s and I paid $79.00)
$350 - $425 would be a good deal on one. Up to $500 for a REALLY nice one.
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Re: Drago's DDR TUTORIAL
I was thinking the same thing myself. Excellent information! That's invaluable...Junk Yard Dog wrote:Looks like I will have to dig out my Soviet SKS a few years ahead of schedule and check if for DDR markings. It's been in cosmoline storage for years and for the life of me I don't remember what markings are on it other than Tula and 1950. Tiny marks like that will require me to run a glass over it to see them. Maybe after the holidays.
"Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it". Mark Twain
"Dang that entropy"
"Dang that entropy"
- bunkysdad
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Re: Drago's DDR TUTORIAL
Man I just checked my 51 and I don't see anything DDR but these rascals are littered with small marks all over aren't they? Mine is a 903 serial# & everything matches.