Some info on Molots

[Chaingun81]

After surfing this forum for a few days, I got really perplexed by origins of Molot rifles and started to do some research. Being Russian, I have a bit of a language advantage so I went ahead with searching the original websites. As I understood from comments here, the major concern is alterations made to the rifles that differ them from a true military surplus, replaced parts being a primary one.

I know that one of main questions is whether or not Molot or its sibling facilities in Russia produce brand new Mosin barrels. Well, based on my research, they definintely do. Regular length 91/30 Mosin rifle comes in 2 versions:

- КО-91-30-550 with an original barrel http://molotarms.ru/index.php?p=shop&ac ... l-s-pu-550

- КО-91-30М-550 with a brand new chrome lined barrel http://molotarms.ru/index.php?p=shop&ac ... teinom-550

It does appear that PU sniper version as well regular full length version can go either way, so if you have a Mosin with what appears to be a shiny brand new barrel it might be just brand new.

M44 carabines, aka KO-44 as designated by Molot are not clear either way. No mention of new barrels there, but it doesn't say they are originals either. http://molotarms.ru/index.php?p=shop&ac ... chii-ko-44

I think I'll try to contact the manufacturer and/or some distributors in Russian and see if I can get any other information. I'll keep y'all posted.

[WeldonHunter]

Thanks for the research and most of that we know. The main question isn't whether they've replaced parts it's are they, Molot, refinishing/refurbing or even building these from parts. Also if they aren't, is someone else before they get them. I mean commercially by someone that's not a Russian military arsenal under government control. The Molots that they sell that are newer production are fairly obvious and we know they have new barrels and that they're chrome lined. They are unmistakably all new reproduction or have a lot of new reproduction parts. Those rifles have new scope mounts that look nothing like an original PU scope mount. The rifles we're concerned about are the M44s, M38s and M91/30 PUs that are all original Mosin Nagant parts. If you can find out where they came from and who refurbished these rifles with proof you'll be a hero to many. Good luck. Let us know if we can help.

[WeldonHunter]

Here's an example. http://www.molot-usa.com/product_info.p ... b307f8ba6f They claim this rifle is arsenal refurbished. I have one. It's all original parts. But some things don't look right about it. The parts all look correct but the stampings are questionable. Same goes for the M44s and M38s that are original (looking) and seem have no reproduction parts and look like refurbed rifles. The question is, who did it and when?

[Chaingun81]

Here's an example. http://www.molot-usa.com/product_info.p ... b307f8ba6f They claim this rifle is arsenal refurbished. I have one. It's all original parts. But some things don't look right about it. The parts all look correct but the stampings are questionable. Same goes for the M44s and M38s that are original (looking) and seem have no reproduction parts and look like refurbed rifles. The question is, who did it and when?

I see what you are saying. I just bought myself a Molot M44, so I'm in the same position - hence the research. I'll see what I can do. I have plenty of friends in Russia, but none of them are in the firearms business, although they all have connections of some sort or another...we'll see...

[Titanium Hammer]

Thanks for your help with this. I too finally received my Molot 1945 Izhevsk M44 from Widener's and it just doesn't look right. I took it apart this morning and most of the stuff on it checks out but the barrel is mirror bright and has a new crown. I'm no expert but it sure looks new to me and definitely not produced in 1945 during war time. I ordered it over a month ago before I knew anything about Molot rifles and I've got two more coming from Classic tomorrow which I'm interested in comparing to the one from Widener's. Neither Classic or Widener's mentioned anything on their websites about the rifles being from Molot and I wouldn't rate the gun I got from Widener's as Excellent++ as they advertised. The stock is a bit beat up and has a splice below the barrel. My brother-in-law is ex-Russian military, owns guns, and lives in St. Petersburg so I will ask my wife to translate some of my questions to him and see if he has any answers.

[Celt]

Good deal, please keep us posted.

[Junk Yard Dog]

We appreciate the effort, there are a lot of questions about these rifles. Some that I see showing up on the board look like typical Soviet era refurbs while others look like they were refinished by any US gunsmith, and so of the bores are just too good to be true. I look forward to hearing what you come up with

[Titanium Hammer]

So in addition to the Wideners 1945 Izhevsk M44 that arrived last Friday, I received the two 1944 Izhevsk M44's from Classic Firearms yesterday. The two from Classic are in a bit better shape than the one from Wideners. After a completely taking all three apart and inspecting them, I've come to the conclusion that everything is legit with the big exception of the barrels. All three have mirror bright bores and it looks like the barrels were produced yesterday. The top M44 is the one from Widener's and the bottom two are from the Classic batch. If anyone wants specific pics of any of the rifles let me know.

[Titanium Hammer]

Hmmm....I just thought to drop a round into the crown on the two from Classic. First one checked out great but the second one has been counter bored. Swallowed the round up to the shoulder! This is only the second report of one of these Molots being counter bored. I was just in too much of a hurry yesterday while taking them down. The Molot plot thickens.

[bocephus]

As a native speaker what's your take on the back of the Molot manual. What do they mean by name of operation "preserved" and what took 36 months? Was there anything lost in translation there?

[Titanium Hammer]

Hmmm...all three of my owners manuals are only written in cryllic. No English to be found anywhere. The dates on them are 10/2012 for the Wideners M44 and both Classic M44's are dated 11/2012.

[desertgunner]

Some information about Waffen Schumacher GmbH (LTD) in between waiting:

WSG is generally a wholesaler, selling to retailers. Their business was extended to Import/Export.

The guns they carry are AR15 type mostly, from ex-USSR countries, Russia and some from Luxembourg and Germany. Lots of .22LR versions for the German Market, thoug. They will also do small gunsmithing jobs.

There is no info on the whole site about the origin of the Mosins other than Molot, Izmash or Tula, no info about new barrels, just of the condition of them "bright and shiny".

It is a safe guess that they received a bunch from Molot, rebarrelled or not, rebarreled or reworked them for the German Market, realized the difficulty of selling them there and exported them here, for faster sale......German collectors are of the same material as represented here, I dare to say we have some on the forum, welcome, and would not jump on a non-defined PU as anyone here. There is no sniper info on that site, it is picture and description meager, to say the least. But that is normal for a wholesaler.....

The matching # thing will be part of a new thread on the Mosin Forum coming up.