The Russian Mosin Nagant Forum

1892 st petersburg C.C


1912 1907 carbine



1893 dragoon

Beauties

The antique Tula might not be rare, but the original matching steps it up a notch.

Some wonderful old rifles here!

This is a hard to find Mosin variant. Not really military (nor ever was or has been), but a Mosin still the same.
One of the hard to find for a collection of Mosins.



Bannerman Mosin in 30-06 caL.

Springfield marked.... a "Mosin", but not really a military surplus rifle (ever)

This is one of the Westinghouse M91 Mosin rifle made by Westinghouse under contract with Russia. When Russia decided to not honor the last of their contract with Westinghouse and Remington, the two companies were stuck with thousands of M91 Mosins. The balance of the M91's were bought by the US govt to keep the two companies from going bankrupt. After the US government owned them, they were later sold to the Bannerman Company. The original rifles never really saw service in the US or Russian military, so they are not "Military Surplus" rifles.

Bannerman Co. purchased them from the US Government. They re-chambered them and modified the bolts to fire the 30-06 round and made many of them into a Sportsters version for the US hunting market,..... but also sold them in "full length". The 30-06 round was a much more popular round in the US then the 7.62 x 54r that they were originally chambered in.

There are many that will not fire a Bannerman 30-06 because they feel there is not enough "meat" left on the chamber after they are cut down to 30-06. But there has been thousands of rounds fired from Bannerman's over the years with no issues at all. However, I fire this one ...... but with reduced 30-06 loads made just for it.....no point in taking a chance!

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Note: The "notch" on the rear of the butt that some one "later" did to make it "look" more modern (I guess). That seems to be the only alteration. The rifle has seen a lot of use after it was converted.

More photos of the rifle here http://thedolk.com/Bannerman/









Circle H on the tang. This is a Westinghouse mark






Westinghouse, which are harder to find in a bannerman.
Notice the shorter barrel shank. This is a trademark of the Bannerman Mosin






The two Springfield Arsenal eagle head inspection marks under the 30-06 on left side of barrel shank






Springfield Arsenal eagle head inspection marks on top of barrel shank





Springfield Arsenal eagle head inspection marks on right side of barrel shank






NEW "English Contract" Stock marks put on by Westinghouse






Comparison of Mosin and Bannerman bolt heads (Bannerman on the left)
On Bannerman rifles, the front bolt head is "black" (blued). Only a portion of the black is left on this one.






Replaced front sight after Bannerman cut down barrel.






Differences in barrel shank length (Bannerman vs Mosin .....Bannerman on Bottom)

I had to check to make sure I haven't posted on this thread--I don't think I have. The following are currently the less common ones I own. First is a 1916 Dragoon. The stock is the rarity on this one as it does not have a cross bolt. The rifle has no Finn or import markings and an odd cleaning rod. It has a second pattern Dragoon hand guard. I'm not sure how the stock got paired with a later rifle. My second rifle is a 1919 Izhevsk M91--which I would consider it to be rare. Like other rare Mosins, bubba cut down the original stock. Luckily, he did not cut the barrel.

[

I'd say it is my 1919 Izhevsk "White Russian" Finned Dragoon. I think I gave $90.00 for it several years back.



Nothing remarkable about another Finned Dragoon but the barrel shank marking.



Note the odd eagle stamps.

It seems that forces loyal to the White Russian faction occupied Izhevsk for around three months.

Speculation is that they either altered or hand cut new stamps for use on rifles made during that time. When they left they either compelled or the workers that were there volunteered to go with them.

Anyway I'd love to see another such example of a 1919 Izhevsk with those "crows" on it. As far as I know I have the only example.

willyj73 wrote:I had to check to make sure I haven't posted on this thread--I don't think I have. The following are currently the less common ones I own. First is a 1916 Dragoon. The stock is the rarity on this one as it does not have a cross bolt. The rifle has no Finn or import markings and an odd cleaning rod. It has a second pattern Dragoon hand guard. I'm not sure how the stock got paired with a later rifle. My second rifle is a 1919 Izhevsk M91--which I would consider it to be rare. Like other rare Mosins, bubba cut down the original stock. Luckily, he did not cut the barrel.

[

Nice M91! This is certainly a rare one as finding a 1919 Izhevsk M91 is no easy task. I also have one and besides yours, haven't seen others in the last 5 years or so. 1919 Tula M91 rifles certainly get a lot of attention, but I think that the 1919 Izhevsk M91s may be more scarce.

Sadly mine was also partially tinkered with by removing sling slot escutcheons for an incomplete shorter job. Also missing were the bands and handguard, but it looks better now. It was likely a Spanish import as there are no import stamps and it wad not a Finn rifle.

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Yeah, nobody seems to get excited over the 1919 Izhevsks. As far as I know, there are only three that are known (including mine). I also just got this re dated 1918. Again, hardly any interest from people.

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I really like that 1918 as well. The revolution/civil war period has become my favorite. I'm still regretting passing on a 1918 Tula several years ago. A guy had a lot of interesting pieces and I had a budget. I picked a 1926 Tula M91, which interested me more at the time.

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My collection includes three, a 1926 Tula, 1927 Izhevsk, and my rarest I think is my 1935 hex Izhevsk, I have only seen 2 come up for sale, all have matching bayonets.

ohjake wrote:My collection includes three, a 1926 Tula, 1927 Izhevsk, and my rarest I think is my 1935 hex Izhevsk, I have only seen 2 come up for sale, all have matching bayonets.

Lets see some pictures!

ffuries wrote:I guess mine would be the Finned M91 that is a 1927 Tikkakoski stepped barrel, built on a 1894 Izhevsk receiver. Supposed to be one of 3000 that received the stepped barrel and a 9 on a 1-10 rarity scale according to 7.62x54r net.

Guess I can add my Finnish Civil Guard M24 to my list, it's built on a no date Remington receiver, has a German made stepped barrel (Böhler Stahl). It's a 8 on the 1-10 rarity scale according to 7.62x54r net. Funny how I find the rare ones in pawn shops and such.

M24 $180.00 OTD
M91 $299.00 OTD

Homer2 wrote:

willyj73 wrote:I had to check to make sure I haven't posted on this thread--I don't think I have. The following are currently the less common ones I own. First is a 1916 Dragoon. The stock is the rarity on this one as it does not have a cross bolt. The rifle has no Finn or import markings and an odd cleaning rod. It has a second pattern Dragoon hand guard. I'm not sure how the stock got paired with a later rifle. My second rifle is a 1919 Izhevsk M91--which I would consider it to be rare. Like other rare Mosins, bubba cut down the original stock. Luckily, he did not cut the barrel.

[

Nice M91! This is certainly a rare one as finding a 1919 Izhevsk M91 is no easy task. I also have one and besides yours, haven't seen others in the last 5 years or so. 1919 Tula M91 rifles certainly get a lot of attention, but I think that the 1919 Izhevsk M91s may be more scarce.

Sadly mine was also partially tinkered with by removing sling slot escutcheons for an incomplete shorter job. Also missing were the bands and handguard, but it looks better now. It was likely a Spanish import as there are no import stamps and it wad not a Finn rifle.

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Homer, I think the Izhevsk plant was closer to all of the turmoil that was going on during that time period. From what I read, Tula was a little more isolated from that. Perhaps that's why we see more 1919 Tula's than Izhevsks.

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I own 3 that could be considered rare: An original matching 1939 Finn m38 in a first pattern stock, an 1893 Chat 91/38, and a 1941 PL marked Finn m38. I've never seen nor heard of another PL m38 so I guess that makes it my rarest. It is original matching except the mag plate and was used by the FL game and fish. Plus has had bullet or shrapnel damage and a name carved into it. The PL mark has been partially scrubbed...but still incredibly rare regardless.

That's 9 Ka3 marked rifles in one display crate.

Pretty rare grouping.





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at left, a straight stock M39 "2" mark, at right a M28-57 in a second model stock