Refurb and foreign aid

[collector 30 or 60]

Virtually all of the Mosin's we have are Soviet refurbs. What about the ones provided as foreign aid throughout the years? Were they all supplied from stocks of stored refurbs, or would they have been delivered in "original condition"? Just curious as to what might have been provided to other nations back in the day.

[Junk Yard Dog]

Spain got a lot of Soviet aid during their Civil War 1936-39, some of these would be the most commonly encountered non refurb Mosins. Finland got a lot of them also, but they were captured and then many rebuilt for use by Finland. Post WW2 the Soviets armed the buffer states with refurbished Mosins, most ended up in Romania and were sold here after 1990. These look like they fought all of WW2 without any refurb due to heavy Romanian use, but they have the markings to indicate post war refurb. In short before WW2 they seem to have been delivered as is, post WW2 aid they had been updated and refurbished.

[collector 30 or 60]

Thanks JYD. That's great info. Based on that I would guess my M38 must have come out of Romania. It has refurb markings, but has seen considerable hard usage afterward.

[Junk Yard Dog]

Thanks JYD. That's great info. Based on that I would guess my M38 must have come out of Romania. It has refurb markings, but has seen considerable hard usage afterward.

If it lacks an import stamp it could also have been brought back from Korea, or Vietnam during our conflicts there. Earlier import marks can be a line of tiny print up by the muzzle. The USSR provided Mosins to the DPRK, and North Vietnam , these became popular trophy's for our boys to bring home.

[collector 30 or 60]

I'm in Canada, so none of our stuff has any import markings. This M38 has a wartime stock, stitched dog collars(also wartime era I believe), and very little bluing left. There is no weathering that is typical of Vietnam use. Are there any identifiers that would point specifically to Romanian service?
Perhaps I should just start a new thread with some pics...

[Junk Yard Dog]

Identifiers for Romanian use would be the heavily used look along with parts mixing that includes Romanian, Polish and Hungarian parts. Weathering is not always found on Vietnam used weapons, I have two that have no such look to them. One a new SKS taken during Tet, and a Hungarian PU taken in 1971. Neither saw service long before being taken by US forces. I am not familiar with all the places Canadian importers brought in Mosins from. That list may include places under US embargo like Venezuela or Cuba were Soviet aid rifles could be found in large numbers.

[SA1911a1]

Does anyone know if Cuba ever received Mosin Help from their big brother? Is there as stash there to be harvested if the politics changed?

[Junk Yard Dog]

Does anyone know if Cuba ever received Mosin Help from their big brother? Is there as stash there to be harvested if the politics changed?

Very likely, and they have probably sent them on to Venezuela by now. We did see some photos out of there maybe a decade or more ago showing M44's in the hands of soldiers, probably militia.

[steelbuttplate]

There is a photo on here somewhere of crates of 7.62x54 stacked high as a forklift will reach, in a Quonset hut warehouse in Cuba.

[selfedya]

Does anyone know if Cuba ever received Mosin Help from their big brother? Is there as stash there to be harvested if the politics changed?

Very likely, and they have probably sent them on to Venezuela by now. We did see some photos out of there maybe a decade or more ago showing M44's in the hands of soldiers, probably militia.

I'm curious if anyone actually still issues old bolt action carbines to any armed force outside of ceremonial duty. On the one side they're available and you can't argue with free. On the other, I imagine with modern manufacturing techniques it's probably cheaper to crank out AKs by the crateload than Mosins or Mausers.

[collector 30 or 60]

Up until around 2018 the Canadian Rangers, a reserve unit in the far north, used Lee Enfields.

[selfedya]

Up until around 2018 the Canadian Rangers, a reserve unit in the far north, used Lee Enfields.

So I've heard. And some classic bolt actions are pressed into service for a sniper role to this day. But in terms of your standard infantry units, using bolt action M44 carbines in any significant capacity is probably a dead idea even in poor countries.

[Darryl]

To the "original post", Not all of the Soviet refurbs came from Russia. Fact is, most of them came out of the Ukraine that were stored there by the Soviet.

[steelbuttplate]

Does anyone know if Cuba ever received Mosin Help from their big brother? Is there as stash there to be harvested if the politics changed?

Very likely, and they have probably sent them on to Venezuela by now. We did see some photos out of there maybe a decade or more ago showing M44's in the hands of soldiers, probably militia.

I'm curious if anyone actually still issues old bolt action carbines to any armed force outside of ceremonial duty. On the one side they're available and you can't argue with free. On the other, I imagine with modern manufacturing techniques it's probably cheaper to crank out AKs by the crateload than Mosins or Mausers.

I've seen several photo's in Ukraine of Russian soldiers carrying PU sniper rifles.

[selfedya]

I've seen several photo's in Ukraine of Russian soldiers carrying PU sniper rifles.

As have I. But I'm curious if anywhere in the world, bolt action carbines like the M38 and M44 are issued to rear troops for things like guard duty. My impression is that the large amount of inexpensive AKs and SKSs fill that role.

Though there are always those who would try: https://youtu.be/09ATRrGVuks?t=193 (action should be cue to 3:13)

[Junk Yard Dog]

Venezuela maybe, but I would expect some are in use with police in the far reaches of Russia, or China, maybe North Korea or Vietnam.

[collector 30 or 60]

To the "original post", Not all of the Soviet refurbs came from Russia. Fact is, most of them came out of the Ukraine that were stored there by the Soviet.

Ukraine was the location for the majority of the actual refurbishment work wasn't it?
Since most of the refurbs hit our shores post '89, I guess they were actually Ukranian property at that time.

[Darryl]

To the "original post", Not all of the Soviet refurbs came from Russia. Fact is, most of them came out of the Ukraine that were stored there by the Soviet.

Ukraine was the location for the majority of the actual refurbishment work wasn't it?
Since most of the refurbs hit our shores post '89, I guess they were actually Ukranian property at that time.

I think that is correct. They were refurbished in the Ukraine and then stored there. Russia had their own stash.
First out were the Ukrainian rifles then later the Russia rifles. When the Soviet Union collapsed, each country had their stash of Soviet M91/30's. They became the property of those countries.

Darryl

[collector 30 or 60]

To the "original post", Not all of the Soviet refurbs came from Russia. Fact is, most of them came out of the Ukraine that were stored there by the Soviet.

Ukraine was the location for the majority of the actual refurbishment work wasn't it?
Since most of the refurbs hit our shores post '89, I guess they were actually Ukranian property at that time.

I think that is correct. They were refurbished in the Ukraine and then stored there. Russia had their own stash.
First out were the Ukrainian rifles then later the Russia rifles. When the Soviet Union collapsed, each country had their stash of Soviet M91/30's. They became the property of those countries.

Darryl

From what we're seeing happening in that area now, Russia apparently didn't unload all their M91/30's. At least some sniper versions were retained.

[Darryl]

To the "original post", Not all of the Soviet refurbs came from Russia. Fact is, most of them came out of the Ukraine that were stored there by the Soviet.

Ukraine was the location for the majority of the actual refurbishment work wasn't it?
Since most of the refurbs hit our shores post '89, I guess they were actually Ukranian property at that time.

I think that is correct. They were refurbished in the Ukraine and then stored there. Russia had their own stash.
First out were the Ukrainian rifles then later the Russia rifles. When the Soviet Union collapsed, each country had their stash of Soviet M91/30's. They became the property of those countries.

Darryl

From what we're seeing happening in that area now, Russia apparently didn't unload all their M91/30's. At least some sniper versions were retained.

You will never know for sure. Russia NEVER lets out that kind of information.