Refurb and foreign aid
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Refurb and foreign aid
Virtually all of the Mosin's we have are Soviet refurbs. What about the ones provided as foreign aid throughout the years? Were they all supplied from stocks of stored refurbs, or would they have been delivered in "original condition"? Just curious as to what might have been provided to other nations back in the day.
- Junk Yard Dog
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Re: Refurb and foreign aid
Spain got a lot of Soviet aid during their Civil War 1936-39, some of these would be the most commonly encountered non refurb Mosins. Finland got a lot of them also, but they were captured and then many rebuilt for use by Finland. Post WW2 the Soviets armed the buffer states with refurbished Mosins, most ended up in Romania and were sold here after 1990. These look like they fought all of WW2 without any refurb due to heavy Romanian use, but they have the markings to indicate post war refurb. In short before WW2 they seem to have been delivered as is, post WW2 aid they had been updated and refurbished.
Leave it as it is. The ages have been at work on it and man can only mar it.
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Re: Refurb and foreign aid
Thanks JYD. That's great info. Based on that I would guess my M38 must have come out of Romania. It has refurb markings, but has seen considerable hard usage afterward.
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Re: Refurb and foreign aid
If it lacks an import stamp it could also have been brought back from Korea, or Vietnam during our conflicts there. Earlier import marks can be a line of tiny print up by the muzzle. The USSR provided Mosins to the DPRK, and North Vietnam , these became popular trophy's for our boys to bring home.collector 30 or 60 wrote: ↑Sun Apr 02, 2023 7:02 pm Thanks JYD. That's great info. Based on that I would guess my M38 must have come out of Romania. It has refurb markings, but has seen considerable hard usage afterward.
Leave it as it is. The ages have been at work on it and man can only mar it.
Don't hit at all if it is honorably possible to avoid hitting; but never hit soft.
Theodore Roosevelt
Don't hit at all if it is honorably possible to avoid hitting; but never hit soft.
Theodore Roosevelt
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Re: Refurb and foreign aid
I'm in Canada, so none of our stuff has any import markings. This M38 has a wartime stock, stitched dog collars(also wartime era I believe), and very little bluing left. There is no weathering that is typical of Vietnam use. Are there any identifiers that would point specifically to Romanian service?
Perhaps I should just start a new thread with some pics...
Perhaps I should just start a new thread with some pics...
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Re: Refurb and foreign aid
Identifiers for Romanian use would be the heavily used look along with parts mixing that includes Romanian, Polish and Hungarian parts. Weathering is not always found on Vietnam used weapons, I have two that have no such look to them. One a new SKS taken during Tet, and a Hungarian PU taken in 1971. Neither saw service long before being taken by US forces. I am not familiar with all the places Canadian importers brought in Mosins from. That list may include places under US embargo like Venezuela or Cuba were Soviet aid rifles could be found in large numbers.
Leave it as it is. The ages have been at work on it and man can only mar it.
Don't hit at all if it is honorably possible to avoid hitting; but never hit soft.
Theodore Roosevelt
Don't hit at all if it is honorably possible to avoid hitting; but never hit soft.
Theodore Roosevelt
Re: Refurb and foreign aid
Does anyone know if Cuba ever received Mosin Help from their big brother? Is there as stash there to be harvested if the politics changed?
Aut Pax Aut Bellum
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Re: Refurb and foreign aid
Very likely, and they have probably sent them on to Venezuela by now. We did see some photos out of there maybe a decade or more ago showing M44's in the hands of soldiers, probably militia.
Leave it as it is. The ages have been at work on it and man can only mar it.
Don't hit at all if it is honorably possible to avoid hitting; but never hit soft.
Theodore Roosevelt
Don't hit at all if it is honorably possible to avoid hitting; but never hit soft.
Theodore Roosevelt
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Re: Refurb and foreign aid
There is a photo on here somewhere of crates of 7.62x54 stacked high as a forklift will reach, in a Quonset hut warehouse in Cuba.
" There are two kinds of people, the good people and the ones that aggravate the hell out of the good people"
Re: Refurb and foreign aid
I'm curious if anyone actually still issues old bolt action carbines to any armed force outside of ceremonial duty. On the one side they're available and you can't argue with free. On the other, I imagine with modern manufacturing techniques it's probably cheaper to crank out AKs by the crateload than Mosins or Mausers.Junk Yard Dog wrote: ↑Tue Apr 04, 2023 7:11 pmVery likely, and they have probably sent them on to Venezuela by now. We did see some photos out of there maybe a decade or more ago showing M44's in the hands of soldiers, probably militia.
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Re: Refurb and foreign aid
Up until around 2018 the Canadian Rangers, a reserve unit in the far north, used Lee Enfields.
Re: Refurb and foreign aid
So I've heard. And some classic bolt actions are pressed into service for a sniper role to this day. But in terms of your standard infantry units, using bolt action M44 carbines in any significant capacity is probably a dead idea even in poor countries.collector 30 or 60 wrote: ↑Wed Apr 05, 2023 2:12 pm Up until around 2018 the Canadian Rangers, a reserve unit in the far north, used Lee Enfields.
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Re: Refurb and foreign aid
To the "original post", Not all of the Soviet refurbs came from Russia. Fact is, most of them came out of the Ukraine that were stored there by the Soviet.
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Re: Refurb and foreign aid
I've seen several photo's in Ukraine of Russian soldiers carrying PU sniper rifles.selfedya wrote: ↑Wed Apr 05, 2023 1:26 pmI'm curious if anyone actually still issues old bolt action carbines to any armed force outside of ceremonial duty. On the one side they're available and you can't argue with free. On the other, I imagine with modern manufacturing techniques it's probably cheaper to crank out AKs by the crateload than Mosins or Mausers.Junk Yard Dog wrote: ↑Tue Apr 04, 2023 7:11 pmVery likely, and they have probably sent them on to Venezuela by now. We did see some photos out of there maybe a decade or more ago showing M44's in the hands of soldiers, probably militia.
" There are two kinds of people, the good people and the ones that aggravate the hell out of the good people"
Re: Refurb and foreign aid
As have I. But I'm curious if anywhere in the world, bolt action carbines like the M38 and M44 are issued to rear troops for things like guard duty. My impression is that the large amount of inexpensive AKs and SKSs fill that role.steelbuttplate wrote: ↑Fri Apr 07, 2023 4:45 pm I've seen several photo's in Ukraine of Russian soldiers carrying PU sniper rifles.
Though there are always those who would try: https://youtu.be/09ATRrGVuks?t=193 (action should be cue to 3:13)
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Re: Refurb and foreign aid
Venezuela maybe, but I would expect some are in use with police in the far reaches of Russia, or China, maybe North Korea or Vietnam.
Leave it as it is. The ages have been at work on it and man can only mar it.
Don't hit at all if it is honorably possible to avoid hitting; but never hit soft.
Theodore Roosevelt
Don't hit at all if it is honorably possible to avoid hitting; but never hit soft.
Theodore Roosevelt
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Re: Refurb and foreign aid
Ukraine was the location for the majority of the actual refurbishment work wasn't it?
Since most of the refurbs hit our shores post '89, I guess they were actually Ukranian property at that time.
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Re: Refurb and foreign aid
I think that is correct. They were refurbished in the Ukraine and then stored there. Russia had their own stash.collector 30 or 60 wrote: ↑Fri Apr 07, 2023 8:26 pmUkraine was the location for the majority of the actual refurbishment work wasn't it?
Since most of the refurbs hit our shores post '89, I guess they were actually Ukranian property at that time.
First out were the Ukrainian rifles then later the Russia rifles. When the Soviet Union collapsed, each country had their stash of Soviet M91/30's. They became the property of those countries.
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Re: Refurb and foreign aid
From what we're seeing happening in that area now, Russia apparently didn't unload all their M91/30's. At least some sniper versions were retained.Darryl wrote: ↑Mon Apr 10, 2023 11:52 amI think that is correct. They were refurbished in the Ukraine and then stored there. Russia had their own stash.collector 30 or 60 wrote: ↑Fri Apr 07, 2023 8:26 pmUkraine was the location for the majority of the actual refurbishment work wasn't it?
Since most of the refurbs hit our shores post '89, I guess they were actually Ukranian property at that time.
First out were the Ukrainian rifles then later the Russia rifles. When the Soviet Union collapsed, each country had their stash of Soviet M91/30's. They became the property of those countries.
Darryl
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Re: Refurb and foreign aid
You will never know for sure. Russia NEVER lets out that kind of information.collector 30 or 60 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 10, 2023 2:15 pmFrom what we're seeing happening in that area now, Russia apparently didn't unload all their M91/30's. At least some sniper versions were retained.Darryl wrote: ↑Mon Apr 10, 2023 11:52 amI think that is correct. They were refurbished in the Ukraine and then stored there. Russia had their own stash.collector 30 or 60 wrote: ↑Fri Apr 07, 2023 8:26 pmUkraine was the location for the majority of the actual refurbishment work wasn't it?
Since most of the refurbs hit our shores post '89, I guess they were actually Ukranian property at that time.
First out were the Ukrainian rifles then later the Russia rifles. When the Soviet Union collapsed, each country had their stash of Soviet M91/30's. They became the property of those countries.
Darryl