Water Heater again.......

[ffuries]

Nov 2018 after Hurricane Michael, we get the gas leak fixed, next day our water heater decided to die. So put a new one in and we're golden until Jul 2021 when the pressure valve starts leaking. We replace it and we're golden again, until Oct 2021 and the damn water heater starts leaking. You're kidding me......

So we check every connection, every hose, every valve, check the entire side of the water heater, no wet spots found. Dry up the water in the catch pan, go to bed wake up a few hours later and the catch pan is flooded again.

Check every damn connection, hose, and valve again.....No joy! Even went as far as to wrap paper towels around the hoses, valves and connections just to double check. 12 hours later and the paper towels and all the areas wrapped in them are as dry as a popcorn fart, and there is water in the catch pan again.

So tomorrow we are going to drain the damn thing and lift it up, and see if there is water coming out the bottom of the water heater. That is the last place I can think of, maybe there is some corrosion going on.

Need to check the warranty paperwork, a water heater shouldn't start rusting out within 35 months of being installed.

[Junk Yard Dog]

They can , and they do go bad that quickly. Most are Chinese import crap, thinner metal, I see them dumped off all the time by the local plumbers with 2017-2018-2019 installation dates marked on them.

[Rongo]

They just don't last anymore.... I have a tankless in my new house, Unlimited hot water. It's nice.

[Junk Yard Dog]

I shove these cheap pieces of shit into the crusher constantly, many less than five years old. Bad elements, and rust holes in the thin tanks. Junk priced as if it was high end solid gear. Ditto for the rest of appliances also, all throwaway junk.

[boltaction]

I shove these cheap pieces of shit into the crusher constantly, many less than five years old. Bad elements, and rust holes in the thin tanks. Junk priced as if it was high end solid gear. Ditto for the rest of appliances also, all throwaway junk.

Hello,
Welcome to the new America... Boss.
A new and improved disposable society we now live in.

Most auto repair shops don't even turn brake drums or rotors anymore.... Hell, find someone to rewind an armature for a alt. or generator; they can't be found anymore.

China has America by the balls. Just look at the mess at the nations west coast ports right now.... We're fucked if push came to shove. America has become soft as an workforce, labor is below most peoples standards. Skilled labor is not a white mans occupation anymore. Hell, why do you think we now have an open border to the south?.

Almost, nothing is solely produced and made in this country anymore, from start too finish. At least, we are not food depended on any foreign countries, yet... Just, foreign labor to plant, produce, harvest and package it.

Think about it... America is in for some tough times ahead, people don't even want to work anymore using Covid as an excuse for not getting back into the workforce. It's to easy for them with their hand outs for Uncle Joe and the gang.
I'm done now.... I'm starting to sound like an angry old white racist.

Yet, Rongo is correct, on demand water heaters are the way to go.... no use heating something you're not using at the time.

[steelbuttplate]

Somehow my Grandparents raised 7 kids with the 7 gallon hot water tank in my Grandma's wood stove. There was a pipe running to the kitchen sink, the only plumbing in the house. That was modern convenience for them, as they were raised in log cabins with nothing but a fireplace.

[Junk Yard Dog]

I shove these cheap pieces of shit into the crusher constantly, many less than five years old. Bad elements, and rust holes in the thin tanks. Junk priced as if it was high end solid gear. Ditto for the rest of appliances also, all throwaway junk.

Hello,
Welcome to the new America... Boss.
A new and improved disposable society we now live in.

Most auto repair shops don't even turn brake drums or rotors anymore.... Hell, find someone to rewind an armature for a alt. or generator; they can't be found anymore.

China has America by the balls. Just look at the mess at the nations west coast ports right now.... We're fucked if push came to shove. America has become soft as an workforce, labor is below most peoples standards. Skilled labor is not a white mans occupation anymore. Hell, why do you think we now have an open border to the south?.

Almost, nothing is solely produced and made in this country anymore, from start too finish. At least, we are not food depended on any foreign countries, yet... Just, foreign labor to plant, produce, harvest and package it.

Think about it... America is in for some tough times ahead, people don't even want to work anymore using Covid as an excuse for not getting back into the workforce. It's to easy for them with their hand outs for Uncle Joe and the gang.
I'm done now.... I'm starting to sound like an angry old white racist.

Yet, Rongo is correct, on demand water heaters are the way to go.... no use heating something you're not using at the time.

I know it's all gone to shit, and been getting worse. Top heavy with cheap crap imported products and increasingly useless people. In truth I just don't give a flying fuck anymore as there is nothing I can do about it, no kids or family to worry about, remaining close friends all also older without family. We aren't going to reap the rewards in the shit show to come. In the meantime I seek out quality products made in the USA when I find them infrequently these days, and the many that were made in previous ones. I hate paying money for chap crap.

[tomaustin]

get it out of service QUICK....if the bottom blows out, you have never experienced a mess like that....................I was walking out my back door on a monday headed to Dallas for three days...happened to hear a dripping sound, opened the utility room door, and it blew out as I looked inside the room......HOLY Shi!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!. Ran to the detached garage to the main water valve and shut off the water to the whole house......I was late for my flight BUT averted a disaster....turn off the water supply to the tank.....you can survive on 5 gallon jugs of water for a day or so...!!!

Please take my advice.........Tom

[ffuries]

get it out of service QUICK....if the bottom blows out, you have never experienced a mess like that....................I was walking out my back door on a monday headed to Dallas for three days...happened to hear a dripping sound, opened the utility room door, and it blew out as I looked inside the room......HOLY Shi!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!. Ran to the detached garage to the main water valve and shut off the water to the whole house......I was late for my flight BUT averted a disaster....turn off the water supply to the tank.....you can survive on 5 gallon jugs of water for a day or so...!!!

Please take my advice.........Tom

Water heater is shut down and has been for a week now....Gas shut down to it, water shut down to it, water drained from it, water lines and gas lines disconnected.

Now that I've gotten hold of Rheem regarding the warranty, we just have to go to HD and do a swap and install the new one.

Then call the gas company and say I smell gas so they come out and check the connections for free. Versus getting a plumber out here to do it. It cost us $500.00 for a plumber to change out a gas fitting after the Hurricane in 2018, God only knows what they charge now.

[ffuries]

My wife along with our youngest son (30) and the water heater are on their way to swap it out. Then comes the fun of putting it back in! Then it'll hopefully be no more cold showers......

[tomaustin]

some years ago, when I had the blow-out, I removed mine by myself and drug it out the back door....went to Sears, the closest seller to me, grabbed a 40 gallon size, tied it up into my trunk, and hauled ass home.........

worked out ok but was an unplanned renovation...!!!!

BTW, never test the safety pop-open valve on the top of your water heater....they will lose their purpose when "tested" and never work when you need it.....the home inspectors all say if you have a doubt about it being good, just close down the water supply, and while it is cooling for a while, go buy a new one and replace it , and you will be good to go.......drain an amount of water from the tank through the lower drain valve so you don't get any overflow when removing the pop-off.............

good luck.............

[ffuries]

some years ago, when I had the blow-out, I removed mine by myself and drug it out the back door....went to Sears, the closest seller to me, grabbed a 40 gallon size, tied it up into my trunk, and hauled ass home.........

worked out ok but was an unplanned renovation...!!!!

BTW, never test the safety pop-open valve on the top of your water heater....they will lose their purpose when "tested" and never work when you need it.....the home inspectors all say if you have a doubt about it being good, just close down the water supply, and while it is cooling for a while, go buy a new one and replace it , and you will be good to go.......drain an amount of water from the tank through the lower drain valve so you don't get any overflow when removing the pop-off.............

good luck.............

Some years a plumber told me, if you drained the water heater for any reason, just replace the pressure valve. Was told it's cheaper to replace it, than to have water damage remediation done, because the valve will fail soon.

Stupid that to drain for yearly maintenance you have to pop the valve, then it fails because you did. Plus on the new water heaters the valve is on the upper side, versus being on the top/lid. Our previous two heaters had it the old way, but the one that failed plus today's replacement is on the side.

[Miller Tyme]

Said it before and I will say it again, you need an expansion tank on the water heater, the issues you have had points to an overpressure issue.

As to testing the relief valve, the home inspector is wrong. Between being a plumber for 6 years and a commercial hvac tech for 35 P i can state this as rubbish. On commercial boilers it is standard operating procedure to test the relief valves by tripping them. Popping the relief valve on a water heater is acceptable and is the only way to verify it isn't seized shut. The only issue you might run into is getting debris under the seat cause it to drip which means you are building up debris around the seat and it should be replace anyway.

[ffuries]

Said it before and I will say it again, you need an expansion tank on the water heater, the issues you have had points to an overpressure issue.

As to testing the relief valve, the home inspector is wrong. Between being a plumber for 6 years and a commercial hvac tech for 35 P i can state this as rubbish. On commercial boilers it is standard operating procedure to test the relief valves by tripping them. Popping the relief valve on a water heater is acceptable and is the only way to verify it isn't seized shut. The only issue you might run into is getting debris under the seat cause it to drip which means you are building up debris around the seat and it should be replace anyway.

We asked on the need of an expansion tank, after Hurricane Michael, was told it wasn't needed .....Just know none of the neighbors have an expansion tank either.

New water heater is in, and the damn pressure valve was only finger tight if that. Tightened it up and watching for leaks. Gas line hooked up and we have NO gas smell at all which is good. But will turn the gas off for the night (As a safety precaution) and have the gas company double check tomorrow.

Barring any water or gas leaks, we'll fire the thing up and have hot water again, after the gas company does their check.

That's the problem, SOME not ALL plumbers or contractors in general tell you something that is BS, and we as the customer, don't know any better. Then years after the fact we find out otherwise.....

Then again are the plumbers that are telling us we don't need an expansion tank, the same ones that are saying don't use your pressure valve, unless you replace it......? Makes you wonder!

Had a local plumbing company that was hired to cleared a clog (Claim they did, but they didn't), that put a stack of coins under the toilet to level it. Why you ask.....?

They put a nut on each of the flange bolts to keep then in place, after they dropped one down the drain. Due to the width of the nut, the toilet wouldn't make contact with the floor, it was floating (Balancing on the two nuts) between a 1/4 and 1/2 inch above the floor level. So they shimmed it with the coins, then caulked around the toilet. First time the toilet was flushed it flowed out from beneath it.

We tore it apart, filmed it as we did, sent it to the owner, then put it all back together properly. Got our money back from the repair and a $1.00 something in change from under the toilet. This is the caliber of some of the companies around here, and something you are stuck with, unless you learn to do it yourself.

Oh and we ended up finding and clearing the clog ourself after probing the yard for the 2nd clean out. Turned out a belly or sag developed right at this clean out, allowing debris to hang up and solidify. We found the clean out about 45 feet from the toilet drain, even though they told us they ran over 160 feet of snake cam down the drain, and everything was clear. Based on their measurements our sewer line was clear all the way to the main city sewer truck/line.

So we have one clean out just outside the house foundation, and a second one shared between us and the neighbor just before the street.

[boltaction]

Hello,
Well, I'd take the advice from the plumber above, that's not making any money off of you(MT). Also, maybe learn how to do your own plumbing needs. Seeing that the quality/ethics of the contractors and plumbers in your area are sharks and can smell the scent of blood...

I'll second, the tankless/on-demand water heaters again. At least, no expansion tank is needed there.

[ffuries]

Hello,
Well, I'd take the advice from the plumber above, that's not making any money off of you(MT). Also, maybe learn how to do your own plumbing needs. Seeing that the quality/ethics of the contractors and plumbers in your area are sharks and can smell the scent of blood...

I'll second, the tankless/on-demand water heaters again. At least, no expansion tank is needed there.

We've been doing our own plumbing for a while now. You start off small fixing a leaky sink, then before you know it you're replacing all the plumbing under the sink, and hooking up your water heater.

The clog was something we felt at the time was beyond our experience. But after the disaster they created, we fixed it ourself. Only took about 4 or 5 hours of probing the ground and digging test holes here and there to follow the pipe for us to find the main clean out. By the time we found it, it was late so the destruction and repair had to wait until the next day.

Now every few months we shove a water hose up both directions of the pipe and flush it out. This let's us see the water flow, at both clean outs and keep the pipes clean and clear.

I need to look and see if we have a open or closed looped system.......

[SA1911a1]

Notes from a retired Plumber: Dos, don'ts and whys.

The devices are water heaters, not hot water heaters. If the water was hot you wouldn't need the water heater! ;) A water heater is repairable until the tank leaks.

You only need an expansion tank if there is a backflow preventer in your supply line; an RPZ or a check of some type. Some municipalities require an RPZ, a double check or some other such device, some don't. If you do not have some kind of device that prevents it, excess pressure from thermal expansion from the water heater backs back into the city supply, or in my case, into the well.

When you get into the pressure side of a water heater, such as replacing a relief valve, or an upper element, don't fuck with the drain valve on the tank, for it is written that if you do, is shall surely leak. Instead, shut down the water to the water heater, open the hot water on your bath tub and the pressure will be gone. If replacing the upper element, I always open the tub, vent the tank by opening the relief valve, if it then T&P valve won't reseat, I replace it. I promise you, experienced plumbers do not mess with the cheap drain valves on tanks unless they have to, and then, the smart ones will replace it with a good brass valve before refilling the tank and returning the heater to service....Some plumbers will even replace a bottom electric element without draining the tank, we call it the Kamikaze method. If you do it right, you can clean up the spilled water with a sponge and a cup. I have done it, but I usually won't admit it. Don't try it at home unless you know the trick and you are feeling lucky!

Now, if you feel like you need to use the drain valve, hook it up to a water hose, to the outside, and open it while the tank is still under pressure, let it blow out the sediment that has accumulated in the bottom of the tank before you try to use it to drain the tank. Otherwise, you could piss a bigger stream than you will get out of the drain valve.

If an electric water heater overheats, it will cause the T&P valve to release, it is generally the fault of the thermostats, which are not difficult to replace on electric units, or in Mike's case, the thermocouple or the gas control valve. Replacing a thermocouple is easy, the gas valve is not practical to replace. Electric water heater thermostats are attached to the tanks by flat springs, sometimes the thermostats come loose, separate from the tank and then the thermostat calls for heat until something gives way.

To determine which electrical component is defective requires a little electrical experience and an ohm meter and amp meter. (When I first started out in the early 70s, many of us used two lightbulbs, installed in waterproof sockets, wired together in series, to test voltage. 110v dim, 220v bright. I had one of these made up in my toolbox well into the 80s when I broke down and bought a amp/ohm meter.)

Leaks on new water heaters are usually caused by one of the nipples, installed at the factory not being torqued properly, or sometimes there is a casting error in the tank, one of those problems can be resolved the other can't. I have installed hundreds new water heaters; nipple leaks happen maybe once in 50, tank defects one in a hundred or more. Of course, most of the water heaters that I installed were made in the US. I have repaired American made heaters that were over 25 years old! If you go to a plumbing supply house, at any time, you will see, somewhere in a back corner, a few new defective water heaters awaiting the heater sales rep to verify, write off, and replace, and then they go to the landfill. It happens.

The Pressure and temperature relief valve is a safety, if it lifts on excess temperature, it is done for, if it lifts on pressure, it will usually reseat when the pressure is less than the spring. However if it lifts for any reason it is wise to replace it and to find out why it worked, because it worked, it did not fail. If your water heater does not have a shutoff valve installed at the heater, then an asshole installed your water heater, install one! T&P relief valves on water heaters should always be piped, full sized, to the outside, without trapping, (don't run it overhead) and discharge in a safe place, pointed down, no more than 6" above the ground, and preferably in a place that you would notice a drip or a flood from the pipe. When installed properly, failure (or success) of the relief valve will not cause property damage or injury. If a water heater is installed in a conditioned space, it makes good sense to install it in a drip pan, with a gravity drain to the outside; it will not handle a catastrophic failure, but it will prevent damage from long term slow leakage.

Sometimes people experience a water heater "sweating" either at the vent pipe or the bottom of the tank, that is generally not a problem in the South, but when you Northern folks fill a water heater, located in a warm location, with 40 degree water, it can cause short term condensation on the tank or drain valve until the tank heats up. Also when that that cold assed air comes down your vent pipe into that warm room, it can condensate on or inside the vente pipe. You can sometimes hear that water sizzling on your burner as it makes its way down. You may think that the heater is leaking, but it heals itself in warmer weather.

My biggest worries about gas water heaters is not leaks, but the failure to supply sufficient combustion air (usually not a problem in a garage installation) or the failure to properly vent the combustion gasses to the outside. Flooding your house is one thing, dying from carbon monoxide, in your sleep is another. That doesn't mean that I shun gas water heaters, I put one in my new home. I just insist on them being installed "by the book."

If you hire a reputable plumber to install a water heater, and allow the plumber to supply the heater, then the whole unit will warrantied for a year. If they are going to fail, it usually happens in the first year. If the plumber provides labor and materials, it means it would be the plumber's responsibility to provide all labor and material to swap the heater. A lot of people will try to save a buck by buying their own materials, and then the plumber only warranties only the labor. I never groused about it. When the plumber provides a device, he marks up his price to make a profit and to cover a part of the replacement of device failure (insurance). If you buy your own materials, you are rolling the dice; most of the time it works out, sometimes it does not.

[WeldonHunter]

They just don't last anymore.... I have a tankless in my new house, Unlimited hot water. It's nice.

This /\ I have a tankless Bosch that was installed in 2005 and still going strong. Only thing I've had to do is twice I had to pull the flow stem out and replace two o'rings that had shrunk. The flow stem is a knob in the front attached to the main control valve that's like a faucet stem. It has two screws that hold it in and it's easy to get to. I used A/C o'rings I have from my days repairing auto A/C.

[SA1911a1]

They just don't last anymore.... I have a tankless in my new house, Unlimited hot water. It's nice.

This /\ I have a tankless Bosch that was installed in 2005 and still going strong. Only thing I've had to do is twice I had to pull the flow stem out and replace two o'rings that had shrunk. The flow stem is a knob in the front attached to the main control valve that's like a faucet stem. It has two screws that hold it in and it's easy to get to. I used A/C o'rings I have from my days repairing auto A/C.

Is your heater gas or electric?

Bosch makes good stuff, several years ago I swapped our dishwasher for a Bosch and it was a world above the previous one. The other one sounded like the junk collection truck running down a potholed street, you can not hear the Bosch running. Tank type heaters have an advantage in hurricane zones. When the power goes down and the water goes off, you still have 50 gallons of potable water in the house.

[WeldonHunter]

They just don't last anymore.... I have a tankless in my new house, Unlimited hot water. It's nice.

This /\ I have a tankless Bosch that was installed in 2005 and still going strong. Only thing I've had to do is twice I had to pull the flow stem out and replace two o'rings that had shrunk. The flow stem is a knob in the front attached to the main control valve that's like a faucet stem. It has two screws that hold it in and it's easy to get to. I used A/C o'rings I have from my days repairing auto A/C.

Is your heater gas or electric?

Bosch makes good stuff, several years ago I swapped our dishwasher for a Bosch and it was a world above the previous one. The other one sounded like the junk collection truck running down a potholed street, you can not hear the Bosch running. Tank type heaters have an advantage in hurricane zones. When the power goes down and the water goes off, you still have 50 gallons of potable water in the house.

Mine is Natural Gas and my mothers is on her Propane. We have a lot of power outages here in Louisiana but mine keeps working because it's a non electric model. My mothers has an electric fan but if the power goes out due to a major outage I hook her generator up to a panel we had installed just for that purpose. It has manual lock out I use to remove the house from the grid and only run it on the generator. I had to do this when hurricane Laura came through. We had a major outage for a lot of northern Louisiana and we were without power for almost a week. I usually have about 20 gallons of gas on hand for the lawn tractors and keep the generators full. Both take about 6 gallons. All the gas stations were down so by the end of the week I was robbing the mowers for gas to run the gens.