What did I buy?

[lthilsdorf]

Damn, an SA marked M38 for $150?! That's a sweet deal, even with the sanded stock! Looks to be in great shape. These Finn captured carbines are certainly difficult to find. I've only ever seen one in person at all of the local shows I go to in PA and NYS. Great find!

Sanded? Sanded by who ..... the Finns? Not very good photos, but ......

PS: Finn captured means no Russian refurbished red shellac.

This is Martin08's


This is mine


Most of them are darker, but a lot of them are lighter. Also, the Finn may have done a little work on them after their version of WWII. So, sanded I doubt would really effect the price at all on something like this because, it is a good possibility it was done by the Finns.

Very true point. It just looks a little light colored even for a finish of the era. I was thinking it would be more done by the Finns like you suggest, but I won't lie I'm not a huge Finn expert. I stick to the SCW rifles, haha!

[steelbuttplate]

My '41 Finn 91/30 is in , I'll go look.

[steelbuttplate]

I had to go look, my '41 Finn 91/30 has the "prewar" escushions on it , two piece stock, and no '41 stamp, so what you said about use of them into '41 makes sense, on original stocks. My 37-40 refurbs have the wartime kind.

[Darryl]

I had to go look, my '41 Finn 91/30 has the "prewar" escushions on it , two piece stock, and no '41 stamp, so what you said about use of them into '41 makes sense, on original stocks. My 37-40 refurbs have the wartime kind.

The problem is "My 37-40 refurbs have the wartime kind" means nothing. As all of them were refurbished and are probably not wearing the stock they were "born in". That is the nature of Russian Mosins that have been refurbished. They mean nothing. Rifles coming out of Finland were not screwed around with (as much) and never went under the heavy refurbishment process that the Russian put theirs through. So they are a better indicator of what rifles looked like when they were made.

Another one is the first M38's in 1939. I believe they had a first series stock originally, but sometime in 1939 they changed to a second series stock for some reason. I think that because there are more 1939 M38's Finn captures with second series stocks. First series stocks are really rare. So I'm a believer that the end of 1939, they changed to a different stock (or maybe earlier).

Dolk

[steelbuttplate]

Refurbs, is an abréviation for refurbished, which means they went thru wartime or post war refurb and are probably wearing refurbish stocks. I think I said the same thing you did, maybe not in as great a detail. I'm glad this isn't writing class.

[musketjon]

Not to stir the pot, but why would you buy something not knowing exactly what it is? Just curious.
Jon

[Darryl]

Refurbs, is an abréviation for refurbished, which means they went thru wartime or post war refurb and are probably wearing refurbish stocks. I think I said the same thing you did, maybe not in as great a detail. I'm glad this isn't writing class.

I was making reference to the very last part of your post.

"My 37-40 refurbs have the wartime kind"

Just pointing out that when they refurbished those Russian rifles they were COMPLETLY torn apart and all the parts were mixed together. All the bolt parts (seperated), All the extractors, alltriggers, all the trigger springs, .... every single part. The parts were re-finished and then they started re-assempling rifles from piles of parts. All the parts (or most of them) had the ser # scrubbed (even if you think it was not done, they were really good at removing them or .... lining them out. After the rifles were put together from parts from different rifles, they matched the serial number back on by restamping or electro pencil, or what ever means they were using.

So, my point is, Russian "refurbished" (refurbs) rifles have parts from many different rifles on them and from many different years. They are no indication of when the stocks (or any part) was used when it was "ORIGINALLY" made. Where as, Finn rifles were not refurbished in that manner. IF the Finns refurbished a rifle, it was done one rifle at a time. So the parts stayed on that rifle. Some parts may have been replaced it they were bad, but for the most part, they kept the same parts on them.

Now, this is best seen on M38's. If you want to see what a M38 really looked like and what it had on it, look at the Finn captured M38's. Finns didn't make stocks for a M38. If they had to, they repaired them or re-worked a M91/30 stock which is very easy to spot. So most of the M38 Finn captures give a better idea of what M38's real looked like originally. Russian Refurbs mostly tell you nothing because they have had the parts exchanged so heavily.

That was my point ..... only that the so called "pre war" stocks were probably being used during the war also ..... not just "PRE- WAR". So that type os stock should not be called a "pre war" stock. Maybe a "pre to early" war stock. Then the next one should be a war time stock. Then the late to post war stock.

I like it better when people call them Series one, series two, series three and so on. Because we really don't know exactly when they did some of these changes. People have quested ar it in the past and those descriptions seem to have stuck as incorrect as they are.

The M38 is one of the rifles that you can really tell when thing were changed because of the Finn capture. Not so much with the Finn captured M91/30's because the Finn were making replacement parts for those because they were using the same rifles. Finn's never made anything for a M38.

Dolk

[Darryl]

Not to stir the pot, but why would you buy something not knowing exactly what it is? Just curious.
Jon

I venture to guess because most Mosins sell for more then $150. It's bound to be a good deal.

In this case, even if it were a standard M38, it would have been a good deal.

Even if it were a M91/30 ..... good deal.

Anything (short of hacked up bubba) would have been a good deal.

He was just very lucky is all. That ticks the rest of us off!!


Now, not knowing Mausers as good, if someone offered me a Mauser (any kind) for $50, I'd probably take it even if I don't know exactly what it was. My luck ..... it is a piece of shit that not worth $30!!!

There is a gun shop a ways from my house that only sells used firearms. I go there and I am a sucker for anything under $75. ANYTHING!. Even if I don't know what it is. I've had to do a lot of work on some of them (not milsurplus stuff) to get them to even fire. On the othe hand, I've done quite well with some.

Ok, here is my strangest story of buying a firearm and not know anything about it. I paid $1,600 dollars for a firearm sight unseen. Of coarse I got a agreement to be able to return it if I didn't want it but .... sight unseen? Yep! This was back in the 80's and the firearm was a 1763 Charleville musket with US surcharge marks (fought in the Rev War). This is before the internet and I found it through a dealer that the people selling it had contacted. He knew I was looking for them and called me up. I bought it from the people directly. It was in the attic of a old house in Kentucky built around 1820 or so. They had no idea what it was and tried to describe it to me (which was not much help). So I took a small gamble and bought it. Paid off big time. However, a few months later the guy that sold it to me said it was wrapped up in what looked like an old band uniform in his attic and it was there before he bought the house. I asked him where the uniform was and he said he tossed it out after he sent the musket to me. I asked him to describe it and yes..... it was a US rev war uniform. Those things are so rare because they just don't last long being made of cloth. I was sick.

Dolk

[Pahtu]

Not to stir the pot, but why would you buy something not knowing exactly what it is? Just curious.
Jon

You sometimes have to listen to your gut sometimes and follow your instinct.

I found a sportered carbine 20 years ago at a Reno show, the barreled action was fine, the carbine sat in a nicely done Fajen stock. The carbine was a Mosin Nagant, it had shiny sharp rifling, decent but worn bluing, matching bolt, barrel and magazine floor plate and an odd rear sight. I was familiar to Mosin Nagants, had a couple common Mosins at that time, but was just beginning to learn about the different models, makers, countries that used em, ect. Later on the forums found out the piece was a 1907 Carbine barreled action in that sporter stock....all for $$225.00, I know now the carbine was rare and correct stocks are darn near impossible to find......but my gut instinct told me buy and I passed it up.....Correct 1907 carbines sold between collectors who know and appreciate what they are....sell for $$3000.00 or more....

Trust your instinct on modest buys....

Pahtu.

[millman]

Instinct paid off for the OP in this case, but knowledge is power. Knowing more than the seller has netted me some bargains in the past.

[Zachm24]

Not to stir the pot, but why would you buy something not knowing exactly what it is? Just curious.
Jon

Basically because, as others said, i knew it couldn't be a bad deal. Had no idea how GOOD of a deal it was, but $150 for any mosin in good working order is a good deal to me. Even a wartime round receiver 91/30. I actually bought my 91/30 years ago when I turned 18 for around the same price. Probably inflated for the time, but it was grabbed from the used rack at gander mtn and I'm sure most know there aren't any deals to be found from there on almost any firearm. Back when they used to exist that is. But this deal here got me to look at that 91/30 again much closer than I ever did before and would you know it, it's also marked SA. Another finn capture? I guess so judging by the markings I looked up. Hex receiver so I guess it has a couple things going for it that may make it moderately more desirable than your standard 91/30 but I digress it's just a shooter to me. I'm not the type to think something is super rare just because I own it. This deal with the M38 really surprised me itself. I guess sometimes too good to be true can turn out true lol.

[Pahtu]

Post some pics of that 91-30, I am curious!

Pahtu.

[Zachm24]

Post some pics of that 91-30, I am curious!

Pahtu.

I'll try to get some pics of it up soon. I'll have to dig it out from the rear of the safe. I had to make a special place for it behind all the other guns since it's so long lol

[tailgunner67]

Wow. great purchase.

[sgtheindl]

Looks great and a great price!

[theroadwarrior10]

Wow look at that beautiful brass piece in front of the sight. That is not a common thing that I have seen alot.

[Longcolt44]

Brass end caps are not rare but they do add to the look of a nice rifle.

[Jumperwire]

Oh wow! The ol' heart is starting to tick a bit faster!!!