Found a Molot M24

[psmd]

I was also under the impression that all of the M44s now at AIM and Classic are from MOLOT, isn't this true?

[Junk Yard Dog]

It seems very likely from all the reports we are getting.

[Gsragtop]

If AIM is selling Molot M44s for $199, how are they making any money at it??? If I understand this right (keep in mind I am very new to all ths), it is believed that Molot is taking Mosins or possibly parts of Mosins.. Taking them apart "restoring" them and selling them. Is this correct??

If so, how can they make money on this? I mean, AIM has to be making a profit so they are probably buying them $50-75 less then they are selling them for. It just seems like a lot of work for little money.. Especially when most of the people like those on this board would rather buy them as-is with out them spending the money on the rehab..

[Longcolt44]

If AIM is selling Molot M44s for $199, how are they making any money at it??? If I understand this right (keep in mind I am very new to all ths), it is believed that Molot is taking Mosins or possibly parts of Mosins.. Taking them apart "restoring" them and selling them. Is this correct??

If so, how can they make money on this? I mean, AIM has to be making a profit so they are probably buying them $50-75 less then they are selling them for. It just seems like a lot of work for little money.. Especially when most of the people like those on this board would rather buy them as-is with out them spending the money on the rehab..

They are most likely paying very little for them in the first place. Remember, we are one of the only countries with child labor laws. How can you buy an orange in Ohio for As little a $3.00 a dozen that comes all the way from South America?

[Homer2]

Child labor in Molot explains low prices? Not convinced.

Commercial refurb may indeed be going on, but why refurb a refurb? Wouldn't the profit margin be higher selling as-is rifles from the arsenal?

I can see light cosmetic work like shellac, but I doubt they are breaking them down to parts and completely rebuilding. Doesn't make sense and too expensive. Remember, the US dollar is actually much weaker than five years ago.

Sent from my ADR6425LVW using Tapatalk 2

[Izhevsk762]

So if it is determined that they are commercial refinished rifles with no collector value, is it OK to D&T them?

Before I induce too many heart attacks with that statement, even if it was possible to prove they are commercial refinishes, I don't advocate the above, and wouldn't do that. But if that is the position of this board, we might see some questions like that from people. How do we answer?

[Junk Yard Dog]

Child labor? Who knows, but Russian workers are not compensated with payment or benefits in any way comparable to their western counterparts. Don't take my word on that, just ask any Russian carpenter, or mason why they are working here and not there, you will get quite an earful. Environmental, Health and safety, and other situations that US company's have to deal with every day can rack up serious costs that are transmitted to the consumer in the form of higher prices for products. For now things are a bit less formal in Russia, and this allows for lower prices on such things as these rifles. Enjoy it while it here, because once they start getting their shit together like China did in the 90's, prices will rise.

[Junk Yard Dog]

So if it is determined that they are commercial refinished rifles with no collector value, is it OK to D&T them?

Before I induce too many heart attacks with that statement, even if it was possible to prove they are commercial refinishes, I don't advocate the above, and wouldn't do that. But if that is the position of this board, we might see some questions like that from people. How do we answer?

I do not advocate turning a Bubba rifle into an even worse Bubba rifle no matter what rifle it is. Such crap would not be tolerated here. Most people who are not collectors wouldn't know how to tell a Molot refinish from a Soviet refurb anyway and would be drilling anything.

[racerguy00]

No double-bubbas.

[Celt]

I found a Spanish mauser here in Peoria...8mm
DRILLED AND TAPPED!
Also with a 350& price tag.
+1 on no re-!

[Darryl]

Child labor in Molot explains low prices? Not convinced.

Commercial refurb may indeed be going on, but why refurb a refurb? Wouldn't the profit margin be higher selling as-is rifles from the arsenal?

I can see light cosmetic work like shellac, but I doubt they are breaking them down to parts and completely rebuilding. Doesn't make sense and too expensive. Remember, the US dollar is actually much weaker than five years ago.

Sent from my ADR6425LVW using Tapatalk 2

The price margin would be higher selling then as is. In fact the collectors might pay more if the rifles were not refurbished at all. But the collector is the only one that wants the rifles as is. Most of the sales are to the new Mosin owner that wants a shinny new rifle. They want those rifles pretty. So that is what we are getting.

This forum doesn't consider shellac as light cosmetic work. It is considered re finishing. It is not OK for anyone to shellac these rifles after they leave the hands of the governments arsenals. "If " Molot is shellacking these rifles (if ), then why not anyone ? No, it is not acceptable.

How many times do we have to say ......nothing should be done to a military rifle after it leaves the governments hands. Not by Molot, or Bubba or anyone. That is the stance of these forums and it is in our rules also.

That is what these forums are about......preservation. If you do not agree with that, then preservation is not your thing. These forums are preservation orientated and will always be. Each person here has to decide if that fits their beliefs or not. If not, you are in the wrong place.

Dolk

[Deputy]

No double-bubbas.

Waht about Hubba-Bubbas?

[desertgunner]

MOLOT is commercial!
MOLOT sells M38 and M44 PU snipers as hunting rifles!
However, look at what Aim and Rguns name them!!!!! Their product description causes much of this HUBBUB here , check the MOLOT website!!!!!!!!!!!!

MOLOT uses war-time production Mosins to produce their hunting rifles. Some are worked up more, a lot are not, because they were OK, when MOLOT got them!!! They do not refurb the refurbs if not necessary!!

It is my guess that they will produce Year 2014 or so Mosins on the old Ishevsk machines, whenever their momentary supply runs out, and the parts thing gets tight enough.

If semi-autos are banned here, they will produce Mosins instead of aks etc, to keep producing and selling.

I repeat myself: Russians do nothing without a plan ahead.....and there are the best chess players , anyway!


Soon enough I will end our "R"RR thread, because we have the info we needed; Molot will have a part of the Q&A on the discussion thread.

[Darryl]

So if it is determined that they are commercial refinished rifles with no collector value, is it OK to D&T them?

Before I induce too many heart attacks with that statement, even if it was possible to prove they are commercial refinishes, I don't advocate the above, and wouldn't do that. But if that is the position of this board, we might see some questions like that from people. How do we answer?

We don't. The rules are set and preservation is the goal. If those rifles are deemed to be commercial rifles and not military surplus rifles (and proven as you say), then they have no place here. I wouldn't disrespect them by drilling them either, but they won't be here if they are a commercial rifles. That will be a shame if that happens. But we can't make Molot or any of those importers and dealers stop and change their ways. Not when they put them up for sale and they sell hundreds of them in a day or less. They will keep doing that as long as they are making money at it. But that don't make it right and there is no reason for this forum to changes it goals just because they want to make a buck. Nor does it mean we have to change or beliefs here just because a bunch of people will pay for a rifle that has an unknown past.

I hope all this is ends up "right" and Molot is doing the right thing. But this forum is not changing just because someone wants to make a buck trashing military surplus rifles. If that pisses people that don't believe in preservation off, so be it. They don't belong here any way.

Dolk

[hr]
Forum Rules:

We do not advocate or encourage altering military surplus firearms.

"Reversible" changes that are made are considered OK as long as they are 100% reversible and no altering of the firearm has been made. Original parts should be kept to return the firearm to "original" later. Items such as scout mount that removes the rear sights and adds a mount for a scout scope are considered OK as long as the items causes no permanent damage or alterations.

Drilling and tapping, refinishing of metal parts, or refinishing stocks are not considered preservation and discussing how to do this is not acceptable discussion on these forums.

Do not ask how to alter a military surplus firearm here, or post altered military surplus firearms on the Preservation Forums.

If you are thinking of altering a military surplus rifle, we don't want to hear about it here. It may be your rifle to do as you wish to it, but this is our house and we don't want them posted here.
There are other forums you can take them to.

If you have come in possession of a alter surplus rifle and you are considering
1) Trying to repair that damage, you may post it in the Restoration Forum or Sportster Forum .
2) If it is going to be left in that condition it may be shown in the sportsters forum . It will be up to the Administrators as to wither it is allowed to remain or not.

No posting of reproduction snipers or re-snipered ex-snipers. Discussions on reproductions sniper almost always start an argument and negative discussions. We have chosen to cut off discussion of these rifles.

Replacing damaged parts to return the firearm to working condition is acceptable and should be kept to a minimum.

[redeuce]

Next "offering" coming soon to you- the Nagant revolver

http://molot.biz/product-e/partners.php

Hell, I just looked back again- I missed the SKS and Tokarev..................

[Darryl]

Translation of their "home" page

Dear visitors!

Welcome to the official website of Vyatskie Polyany machine-Poliansky machine-building plant (Molot)!
Our factory, founded in 1940, is one of the leading manufacturers of sporting and hunting weapons.
Taking into account the needs of the modern market, our team of highly skilled specialists constantly improves and completes the product range. Closed production process, as well as key technological competence, which the plant continuously improving, guarantee the highest quality of our products.
We are confident that our rifles and carbines will bring you only joy. You can verify this by examining the model presented on this site for sport and hunting weapons and their technical characteristics.
We invite to cooperation of Russian and foreign companies interested in producing and acquiring high-quality sporting and hunting weapons, as well as accessories.

Yours faithfully
and hope for mutually beneficial cooperation,
Interim Director of OJSC «Hammer» Alexander Spirin

[Darryl]

Partners



Waffen Schumacher GmbH Am Saxhof 12, D-47807 Krefeld,
Germany tel: +49-(0)-2151-93-32-96
fax: +49-(0)-2151-93-32-97

Rifles Antiques Relics Express, LLC 229 Buckley Avenue Oxford, NJ 07863, USA tel.+1 908-453-3938
rareimporterdavinci@gmail.com
Also known as R.Ox.Nj

Rosjagd GmbH Rosenstrasse 7, 20095 Hamburg,
Germany tel: +49-40-7810-71-0
fax: +49-40-7810-7122

Asekauppa Erkki Lahdeniemi Teiskontie 22, 33540 Tampere,
Finland tel: +358-3-255-7126
+358-3-260-9685

Artemis AS Inkognito terrase 7, N-0256,
Oslo, Norway tel: +47-24-11-86-98
fax: +47-24-11-86-99

Zommers Ltd. Kr. Barona 31, Riga, LV-1011,
Latvia tel: +371 728-0790
+371-728-0791

Hunting Association "Jaanikese" Uus 7A-4, Valga 68203,
Estonia tel: +372-5247-332
+372-7610-119

Ase Travel post office box 265, 210620 Ulan Bator, Mongolia tel. (976-11) 48-12-99
(976-11) 35-13-87
Kartalis Near East Agency 15 Vlahernon str., GR-55131,
Thessaloniki, Greece tel: +30-231-0480-346
+30-231-0495-607

Indusstek 8 Ida Street, Hornsby, 2077 New South Wales,
Australia tel: +612-9476-2818
fax: +612-9940-3022

[Deputy]

Next "offering" coming soon to you- the Nagant revolver

http://molot.biz/product-e/partners.php

Hell, I just looked back again- I missed the SKS and Tokarev..................

What the heck? Now I have another Nagant version to add to my collection?????

[Junk Yard Dog]

So it would seem.

[Deputy]

Ack...it never ends.