Off the Rarity Charts - [SA] 1939 M/38
Off the Rarity Charts - [SA] 1939 M/38
One of the great aspects of Mosin Nagant collecting is that there are many models, feature variations, markings, and years of manufacture that are considered rare or uncommon. This allows for collectors to seek, and sometimes find, some very special specimens. The following is a Soviet made Model M38, which in large is not extremely uncommon as approximately 2.5 million were made. But this one has some features which stack up to put it near the top of the desirability scale. It's a first year model (1939) from the Izhevsk Arsenal which saw limited production in the initial run.
From here, the features and markings add to the collectible interest. This one sports an Early Stock design which has a "short" rear barrel band shoulder in the transition from the gripping area to the forestock, directly in front of the rear sight. Later production was changed to utilize the stock blanks from the M91/30, and this shoulder area was then approximately 1" forward of the early design. Handguards also needed to be altered to accommodate this change. Early ones had the short rear collar, and later ones had a longer rear collar. Not all 1939 M38's will still have the Early Stock, due to attrition in wars and later refurbishment. The following link provides some further information about M38's and stock variations.
http://7.62x54r.net/MosinID/MosinM38.htm
You will notice that the Early Stock pictured in the above link has a squared shoulder with no provision for finger relief inletting to ease access for rear band removal. Some of these stocks were later cut for the finger relief grooves. Mine had the relief cuts added.
Next, these firearms were developed and produced for war, and by the time the M38 was seeing significant action, the Soviets were engaged on many fronts. Besides the Nazi invasion of 1941, the Finns decided that they wanted to regain territory that they had ceded in the Winter War of 1939. My carbine was likely captured by the Finns during the 1941-1944 span of the Continuation War, as one of approximately 1,800 carbines (including a small number of M44's). The following links provide good summaries of both the Continuation War and M38 Carbine histories.
http://mosinnagant.net/finland/FinlandC ... dgrass.asp
http://mosinnagant.net/USSR/Model-1938-Carbine.asp
Captured guns received the Finnish Army Property Mark, [SA].
One feature lacking that would put this gun over the top, would be matching numbers. This one obviously saw some rearsenal work by the Finns, as the full complement of numbers are either scrubbed or force match. But it is fairly clear that by the rear tang impression, the stock is original to the gun.
Fumbling through a grab box at a gunshop, I found this Finn war time sling with stamped collars. I did take the liberty to add it to the carbine...
Just some more pics.
And as always, folks, thanks for looking.
From here, the features and markings add to the collectible interest. This one sports an Early Stock design which has a "short" rear barrel band shoulder in the transition from the gripping area to the forestock, directly in front of the rear sight. Later production was changed to utilize the stock blanks from the M91/30, and this shoulder area was then approximately 1" forward of the early design. Handguards also needed to be altered to accommodate this change. Early ones had the short rear collar, and later ones had a longer rear collar. Not all 1939 M38's will still have the Early Stock, due to attrition in wars and later refurbishment. The following link provides some further information about M38's and stock variations.
http://7.62x54r.net/MosinID/MosinM38.htm
You will notice that the Early Stock pictured in the above link has a squared shoulder with no provision for finger relief inletting to ease access for rear band removal. Some of these stocks were later cut for the finger relief grooves. Mine had the relief cuts added.
Next, these firearms were developed and produced for war, and by the time the M38 was seeing significant action, the Soviets were engaged on many fronts. Besides the Nazi invasion of 1941, the Finns decided that they wanted to regain territory that they had ceded in the Winter War of 1939. My carbine was likely captured by the Finns during the 1941-1944 span of the Continuation War, as one of approximately 1,800 carbines (including a small number of M44's). The following links provide good summaries of both the Continuation War and M38 Carbine histories.
http://mosinnagant.net/finland/FinlandC ... dgrass.asp
http://mosinnagant.net/USSR/Model-1938-Carbine.asp
Captured guns received the Finnish Army Property Mark, [SA].
One feature lacking that would put this gun over the top, would be matching numbers. This one obviously saw some rearsenal work by the Finns, as the full complement of numbers are either scrubbed or force match. But it is fairly clear that by the rear tang impression, the stock is original to the gun.
Fumbling through a grab box at a gunshop, I found this Finn war time sling with stamped collars. I did take the liberty to add it to the carbine...
Just some more pics.
And as always, folks, thanks for looking.
Last edited by martin08 on Fri Feb 10, 2012 10:09 am, edited 1 time in total.
No words of wisdom come to mind at this time....
Re: Off the Rarity Charts - [SA] 1939 M/38
“Freedom is the right to tell people what they do not want to hear.” George Orwell, English novelist, essayist, and critic, 1903-1950
Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.
C. S. Lewis
Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.
C. S. Lewis
Re: Off the Rarity Charts - [SA] 1939 M/38
SHWING!
You see in this world there are two kinds of people my friend, those with loaded guns... and those who dig. You dig.
- Junk Yard Dog
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Re: Off the Rarity Charts - [SA] 1939 M/38
Nice Looks like it has seen some action.
Leave it as it is. The ages have been at work on it and man can only mar it.
Don't hit at all if it is honorably possible to avoid hitting; but never hit soft.
Theodore Roosevelt
Don't hit at all if it is honorably possible to avoid hitting; but never hit soft.
Theodore Roosevelt
Re: Off the Rarity Charts - [SA] 1939 M/38
Nice one
The commerce which maybe carried on with the people inhabiting the line you will pursue renders a knowledge of these people important ~Thomas Jefferson~ (to- Lewis and Clark)
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Re: Off the Rarity Charts - [SA] 1939 M/38
I will trade you even for a 1940 Tula 91/30 Refurb. It's a 1
Man Martin, that is exactly what I dream about running in to at a pawn shop. That is a wonderful rifle.
Man Martin, that is exactly what I dream about running in to at a pawn shop. That is a wonderful rifle.
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Re: Off the Rarity Charts - [SA] 1939 M/38
Unless you trade me even Steven for my M38 39' Izhevsk!SA1911a1 wrote:A pox upon you Martin......
WOW
Seriously though, That is phenomenal. If I could pry just a bit, What did that set you back & do they have more???
"Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it". Mark Twain
"Dang that entropy"
"Dang that entropy"
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Re: Off the Rarity Charts - [SA] 1939 M/38
DAMN!!! Proof that life isn't fair.
FREEDOM...USE IT OR LOSE IT!!
Re: Off the Rarity Charts - [SA] 1939 M/38
I am! Very much! And thank you for posting the photos! She's absolutely incredible. I would go ahead and give it an extra 4 points though. After all, it is a 38martin08 wrote:As always, gentlemen, thanks for looking and enjoy.
Very impressive Martin. It doesn't get any better!
Cocked, locked and ready to rock...
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Re: Off the Rarity Charts - [SA] 1939 M/38
The user formerly known as mosinnagantm9130
Re: Off the Rarity Charts - [SA] 1939 M/38
You may wish to save a more powerful curse for next week's feature. You can pick one ahead of time, if you'd like.SA1911a1 wrote:A pox upon you Martin......
WOW
http://listverse.com/2007/10/11/top-10-bizarre-curses/
The Finns had the last hurrah.Junk Yard Dog wrote: Nice Looks like it has seen some action.
A seller "in the know" knew it was an M38, and the remaining ignorance was his loss/my gain. No, he didn't have any brothers or sisters. :sad:Rongoman wrote:
Seriously though, That is phenomenal. If I could pry just a bit, What did that set you back & do they have more???
Number 1 is usually good. Right?Jumperwire wrote:I will trade you even for a 1940 Tula 91/30 Refurb. It's a 1
Man Martin, that is exactly what I dream about running in to at a pawn shop. That is a wonderful rifle.
Only love and war, brother.Longcolt44 wrote:DAMN!!! Proof that life isn't fair.
Fair enough. Another 1901 points for authenticity, and it's up to 1939.MN Fan wrote:I am! Very much! And thank you for posting the photos! She's absolutely incredible. I would go ahead and give it an extra 4 points though. After all, it is a 38martin08 wrote:As always, gentlemen, thanks for looking and enjoy.
Very impressive Martin. It doesn't get any better!
Thanks, gents.
No words of wisdom come to mind at this time....
- Junk Yard Dog
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Re: Off the Rarity Charts - [SA] 1939 M/38
Thanks for the link Martin, I remember this one, what happened to it is easy, they brought it to a guy like me and I ran it through the crusher, now it's the reason your icebox spoils your milk, and the washer shrinks your clothing
At 5:45 p.m. on 30 September 1955, film icon James Dean was killed in a car accident when his new Porsche Spyder (nicknamed “Little Bastard”) crashed head on into another car. Rolf Wutherich, Dean’s friend and mechanic (who had been riding with the movie star) was thrown from the Spyder and survived the wreck, but Dean was pinned inside, his neck broken. Donald Turnupseed, the driver of the other car, suffered only relatively minor injuries. After the tragedy, master car customizer George Barris bought the wreck for $2,500. When the wreck arrived at Barris’ garage, the Porsche slipped and fell on one of the mechanics unloading it. The accident broke both of the mechanic’s legs. While Barris had bad feelings about the car when he first saw it, his suspicions were confirmed during a race at the Pomona Fair Grounds on October 24, 1956. Two physicians, Troy McHenry and William Eschrid, were both racing cars that had parts from the “Little Bastard.” McHenry died when his car, which had the Porsche’s engine installed, went out of control and hit a tree. Eschrid’s car flipped over. Eschrid, who survived despite serious injuries, later said that the car suddenly locked up when he went into a curve. Accidents continued to occur in relation to the car, until 1960 when it vanished. Its whereabouts is still known.
At 5:45 p.m. on 30 September 1955, film icon James Dean was killed in a car accident when his new Porsche Spyder (nicknamed “Little Bastard”) crashed head on into another car. Rolf Wutherich, Dean’s friend and mechanic (who had been riding with the movie star) was thrown from the Spyder and survived the wreck, but Dean was pinned inside, his neck broken. Donald Turnupseed, the driver of the other car, suffered only relatively minor injuries. After the tragedy, master car customizer George Barris bought the wreck for $2,500. When the wreck arrived at Barris’ garage, the Porsche slipped and fell on one of the mechanics unloading it. The accident broke both of the mechanic’s legs. While Barris had bad feelings about the car when he first saw it, his suspicions were confirmed during a race at the Pomona Fair Grounds on October 24, 1956. Two physicians, Troy McHenry and William Eschrid, were both racing cars that had parts from the “Little Bastard.” McHenry died when his car, which had the Porsche’s engine installed, went out of control and hit a tree. Eschrid’s car flipped over. Eschrid, who survived despite serious injuries, later said that the car suddenly locked up when he went into a curve. Accidents continued to occur in relation to the car, until 1960 when it vanished. Its whereabouts is still known.
Leave it as it is. The ages have been at work on it and man can only mar it.
Don't hit at all if it is honorably possible to avoid hitting; but never hit soft.
Theodore Roosevelt
Don't hit at all if it is honorably possible to avoid hitting; but never hit soft.
Theodore Roosevelt
- bunkysdad
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Re: Off the Rarity Charts - [SA] 1939 M/38
Hmmmm, I was off today and piled up in a good blanket and watched a 1955 movie starring James Dean, Rebel Without a Cause.
the movie was released less than a month before he died. Good movie.
the movie was released less than a month before he died. Good movie.
- Junk Yard Dog
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Re: Off the Rarity Charts - [SA] 1939 M/38
Last night I watched The Andromeda Strain, been years since I watched it, I forgot how many futuristic computer things they had going on in that movie, most of it could probably be duplicated by this home PC today
Leave it as it is. The ages have been at work on it and man can only mar it.
Don't hit at all if it is honorably possible to avoid hitting; but never hit soft.
Theodore Roosevelt
Don't hit at all if it is honorably possible to avoid hitting; but never hit soft.
Theodore Roosevelt
- Rongo
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Re: Off the Rarity Charts - [SA] 1939 M/38
Bump for the Showcase?
"Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it". Mark Twain
"Dang that entropy"
"Dang that entropy"
Re: Off the Rarity Charts - [SA] 1939 M/38
Good catch Rongo, this one should obviously be included.
You're doing a great job over-seeing the showcase...thank you.
You're doing a great job over-seeing the showcase...thank you.
Cocked, locked and ready to rock...
- Greasemonkey
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Re: Off the Rarity Charts - [SA] 1939 M/38
Wow, that's a nice one, it gets my vote for the Showcase
That one almost makes me wanna gather up my toys and go home..
That one almost makes me wanna gather up my toys and go home..
I said I was an addict. I didn't say I had a problem.
- Junk Yard Dog
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Re: Off the Rarity Charts - [SA] 1939 M/38
There are at most four Finn M38's on the board, that alone shows how rare they are, it should be in the case.
Leave it as it is. The ages have been at work on it and man can only mar it.
Don't hit at all if it is honorably possible to avoid hitting; but never hit soft.
Theodore Roosevelt
Don't hit at all if it is honorably possible to avoid hitting; but never hit soft.
Theodore Roosevelt